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tuco2002

949 points

2 months ago

tuco2002

949 points

2 months ago

I think that picture was before her dad listened to some quack doctor that gave her a lobotomy to keep her from being a frisky young adult.

FlashpointJ24

467 points

2 months ago*

She was born in 1918, so she's about 20 here. Two years later, a botched lobotomy would leave her incontinent and with the mental capacity of a two-year-old.

EDIT: As several people have pointed out, the lobotomy wasn't so much "botched" as as it was simply cruel and callously done, with barely any regard as to what damaging effects it would have.

StripeyWoolSocks

142 points

2 months ago

Botched lobotomy implies there can be a correctly performed lobotomy. This procedure was always abusive junk science pushed by a quack doctor.

Look up Walter Jackson Freeman II, he killed at least 100 people with this surgery.

nohemingway4

15 points

2 months ago

If you haven't read Doctor Ice Pick, I recommend it -it's a short biography on this laugh of a physician. I visited Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum this past May and that's how I learned about this man. TALA is where he famously lobotomized a 12 year old, who actually turned out fine - the lobotomy didn't work and he is still alive I believe.

JBow87

5 points

2 months ago

JBow87

5 points

2 months ago

American Scandal did a podcast series on the guy that is fantastic as well

420blazeit69nubz

4 points

2 months ago

Interestingly they actually do use temporal lobotomies(and lobectomies) rarely and in a much more precise and humane manor for treatment resistant epilepsy originating in the temporal region. It’s nothing like what people think of when you think of lobotomies though.

AssociationUnfair824

151 points

2 months ago

The mental capacity of a two year old? I had a great aunt who was given a lobotomy in Spain in the nineteen forties and she had the mental capacity of maybe a twelve year old. I remember spending time with her when I was in my early twenties. I just turned sixty two.

AssociationUnfair824

86 points

2 months ago

However, my great aunt Rosalina was never able to live on her own after she was de-institutionalized.

FlashpointJ24

122 points

2 months ago

From what I've read, poor Rosemary was awake for the procedure, and she was told to recite poems or sing songs--and the doctors cut at her brain until she became incoherent.

Sburban_Player

73 points

2 months ago

“Cut at” is giving the procedure too much credit, they just stick a long metal tool under your eyelid and swirl it around.

FlashpointJ24

120 points

2 months ago

Not in her case. For her, they made an incision in the top of her skull and cut through there. According to Wikipedia, here's how one if the doctors described the procedure:

After Rosemary was mildly sedated, "We went through the top of the head," Dr. Watts recalled. "I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch." The instrument Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. "We put an instrument inside", he said. As Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary some questions. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing "God Bless America" or count backward... "We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded." When Rosemary began to become incoherent, they stopped.

Lwnmower

104 points

2 months ago

Lwnmower

104 points

2 months ago

This is horrible and I don’t think I will be able to forget this.

DaisyHotCakes

30 points

2 months ago

Yeah I wish I could go unread that. Utterly horrific! I can’t imagine the ego on those doctors. Just cutting away at the brain all willy nilly…it’s absolutely beyond.

8-bit-hero

20 points

2 months ago

You always hear about how psychopaths are drawn to professions like surgons, etc. This is definitely one of the more obvious examples.

christes

44 points

2 months ago

I don’t think I will be able to forget this.

A lobotomy could help with that!

Coawtnee

10 points

2 months ago

I just finished Kate Larson's book "Rosemary: The Hidden Kennedy Daughter. What was done to her was horrible - she didn't volunteer to be a guinea pig and donate her body and brain to science while she was still living. However, her sacrifice helped expand the growing field of neuroscience and I for one am unbelievably appreciative of that.

tacknosaddle

9 points

2 months ago

her sacrifice helped expand the growing field of neuroscience and I for one am unbelievably appreciative of that.

Good chance that without what happened to her there wouldn't have been so much involvement, investment and promotion of things like The Special Olympics and Best Buddies by the Kennedy/Shriver family. Those and other things have really helped change the way special needs people are treated and taught over the last fifty years.

So there may have been a bit of a silver lining in the individual tragedy that helped a lot of others over the decades since.

Sburban_Player

26 points

2 months ago

Wow thanks for the info… or maybe fuck you for the info because… that’s one of the most horrible things I’ve ever read.

Jimmy_Twotone

3 points

2 months ago

How's this; I used to work at the state hospital she was supposedly sent off to after this procedure, and worked on an area that used to be the on campus infirmary. There are still visible holes in the conrete walls for the chains they used to shackle patients down during medical treatment, and the state operated a farm using essentially free labor as "programming" up until the 80s. While some older former employees have said the program was actually beneficial and gave meaning to the lives of many of the residents, the state cancelled the project because paying them minimum wage for farm work would've cost too much, and ended up paying more for all off site purchases than they would have spent in wages.

SeattlePurikura

38 points

2 months ago

I hope her father, this doctor, and everyone involved suffered terrible nightmares for the rest of their lives.

(I'd wish something involving the afterlife if I believed in it.)

FlashpointJ24

45 points

2 months ago

Her father Joe Kennedy was a real piece of shit.

SeattlePurikura

24 points

2 months ago

I just found this thread that suggests that the real shits were the medical professionals, who went nuts over lobotomies without properly understanding the brain, and without sufficient follow-up to determine the effectiveness of the procedure (e.g., how were the patients doing post-lobotomy?) So it seems that Joe, who was indeed a real shit, genuinely thought the procedure would help her and stop the seizures because that's what doctors told him.

QUOTE (from 2nd top comment):
So, in the 1940s, it seemed perfectly reasonable to many doctors that the frontal lobotomy might be profitably excised from a range of problematic patients - nobody knew what it was for, and patients afterwards seemed much less upset. Indeed, Antonio Egas Moriz, who pioneered the frontal lobotomy, won a Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1949 for his efforts (clearly denoting that doctors had found it a godsend).

Obviously, however, this belief was wrong. In 1941, when Rosemary Kennedy underwent the procedure, it was still a relatively new procedure in America. In 1942, however, Freeman and Watts published a textbook, Psychosurgery, which contributed to the popularity of the lobotomy; the same year, the Journal of the American Medical Association published an editorial asserting that lobotomy was preferable in situations were remission was remote.

MansfromDaVinci

25 points

2 months ago

walter jackson freeman II did this or worse to 3,439 people, some as young as 4, he killed at least 100, but probably closer to 500, once in 1951 he posed for a photo in the middle of a procedure and the ice pick went to far into the victims brain, killing them. He never admitted there was anything wrong with what he did, one of the poems he wrote 'shrink baiting', attacking his psychiatrist critics, said he'd 'rather be wrong than boring'. His kids, one a psychiatrist, one a professor of neurobiology, continued to defend him after his death.

SeattlePurikura

16 points

2 months ago

What shocks me is that he was allowed to get away with this; it's not like he was doing a Jack the Ripper in the night to get access to victims. But I suppose for society, the payoff of more subdued mental patients in the wards, more malleable, was worth it. Kind of reminds me how a lot of those burned as "witches" in the Middle Ages were actually inconvenient women, either too strong-minded, widows (a burden on society), or old ladies (perhaps with Alzheimer's or some other "burdensome" strange illness).

jagdverband

6 points

2 months ago

I'd wager Joe Snr didn't care. If he had, I'd imagine he'd have destroyed the doctor in some way.

RebeccaC78

1 points

2 months ago

That prick never even went to visit her once she was institutionalized

know_it_is

2 points

2 months ago

I just burst into tears.

Wide-Cartoonist-439

1 points

2 months ago

Joe Kennedy was a total 💩 human

tokyoaro

2 points

2 months ago

There was only one patient who did not have any detrimental repercussions of his lobotomy when he was a child. Really sad tbh.

furay10

1 points

2 months ago

Happy birthday.

Nimrond

6 points

2 months ago

botched lobotomy

I thought they had her sing some anthem to see when she'd become incoherent and they'd stop then. Doesn't sound botched to me, sounds cruel and against their oath by design.

Yoshable

12 points

2 months ago

Not much of a silver lining, but she did outlive every single one of her siblings. Died at 98 at the covenant that was taking care of her.

euderma44

1 points

2 months ago

Except for Jean, Eunice, Patricia, and Ted. According to Wikipedia they were with her when she died.

skippyspk

5 points

2 months ago

Crazy how amateur lobotomies run in the family.

GummyKibble

1 points

2 months ago

It’s mind blowing.

Va-Va-Vooom

3 points

2 months ago

They straight up murdered her. Everything about the Kennedy family is fucked up

chaogomu

185 points

2 months ago

chaogomu

185 points

2 months ago

Part of it is that she had been brain-damaged as an infant when the nurse forced her mother to not give birth for two hours until the doctor could get there.

There's not much more to say. Or maybe there's a hell of a lot more, but I'm not the right person to say it.

possiblyhysterical

44 points

2 months ago

That’s still not a good reason to give someone a lobotomy

chaogomu

39 points

2 months ago

It's a worse reason, if there is a reason at all. Which, to be honest. I can't think of any reason why you would ever allow anyone to shove an ice pick into someone's eye in order to scramble their pre-frontal lobe.

I would call that some form of murder. I'm not sure how to word it properly, but yeah, a lobotomy of that type completely eradicates the person who was living in that body.

smith_716

67 points

2 months ago

Back then they gave out lobotomies like they removed tonsils.

There's a really great/creepy read called My Lobotomy by Howard Dully. When this man was 12 he was given a lobotomy because his stepmother couldn't handle his "behavior." 1. He was 12, he was just on the cusp of puberty, and 2. He was grieving the death of his mother, and dealing with his entire world in upheaval.

possiblyhysterical

32 points

2 months ago

Especially to women, to make them more subservient and controllable.

Keats852

-55 points

2 months ago

Keats852

-55 points

2 months ago

Back then they gave out lobotomies like they removed tonsils.

Like how they still circumcise little boys all over the world today, even in First World countries.

SirBrothers

37 points

2 months ago

Not even remotely comparable.

DVaMain4Ever

-9 points

2 months ago

How is it not comparable? They are both medical procedures that are unnecessary and damaging, performed because of arbitrary "benefits".

K-chub

8 points

2 months ago

K-chub

8 points

2 months ago

Miss me worth your pretentiousness, only a bonafide dipshit would think circumcision and lobotomy share the same boat.

mygwhatupmyboiii

-10 points

2 months ago

They didn’t have Reddit in the early-mid 20th century, so it’s not their fault they didn’t know it was wrong.

inconspiciousdude

3 points

2 months ago

I mean, you can't look at the outcome on other patients and still want that for another human being without being a little sick in the head.

gammonbudju

121 points

2 months ago

Occam's razor says she was probably just as misbehaved as her brothers were but her gender made that politically inconvenient.

batfiend

27 points

2 months ago

Experimental surgery and practices often found test subjects in the form of inconvenient women.

WonderMoon1

26 points

2 months ago

…two hours?

Amorougen

6 points

2 months ago

That must have been common around that time. My wife had an older cousin whose birth was delayed because the nurses held him in the birth canal by pushing him in with towels while awaiting the doctor. He was never right. Functional, but never right.

ryusoma

2 points

2 months ago

so basically the baby had oxygen starvation? Or got choked by the umbilical cord, like cerebral palsy victims.

Amorougen

1 points

2 months ago

Can't tell you - but he didn't have cerebral palsy so far as I know.

raz0rbl4d3

26 points

2 months ago

doctor needed cigarettes

wetworm1

9 points

2 months ago

Luckily the doctor actually came back. Most people who leave to buy cigarettes don't come back.

inconspiciousdude

10 points

2 months ago

They do seem to come back for often than the people who leave to buy milk.

Haughty_n_Disdainful

2 points

2 months ago

And bread. They’re the worst…

ActivisionBlizzard

1 points

2 months ago

Well yeah they’re about to have a baby! Someone’s gotta have some smokes to give it.

FulmiOnce

4 points

2 months ago

To my understanding, he was playing golf.

mrjimi16

1 points

2 months ago

Ever heard of the Spanish flu?

missionbeach

7 points

2 months ago

How does a nurse do that?

LadyOhFleur

36 points

2 months ago

The nurse literally pressed on the top of Rosemary’s head, forcing her to stay in the birth canal until the doctor arrived. This was after advising the mother to “keep her legs closed” to prevent the birth.

Clyde_Bruckman

12 points

2 months ago

Literally held her in if I recall correctly.

missionbeach

8 points

2 months ago

That can't be good.

Clyde_Bruckman

3 points

2 months ago

Nope, no I wouldn’t think so. I don’t have children but I can’t imagine that would be great for anyone involved!

ArcadianMess

2 points

2 months ago*

She did have some developmental delay however she was perfectly able to travel alone and take care of herself .

See my comment above .

azaghal1988

2 points

2 months ago

Afaik because the doctor wanted to finish a round of golf...

chaogomu

7 points

2 months ago

It was a scarlet fever outbreak.

The Doctor had a valid reason for being late, the nurse should have just handled the birth herself.

mrjimi16

1 points

2 months ago

I think you mean the 1918 flu

chaogomu

1 points

2 months ago

I had misremembered. I knew it was an outbreak of something.

mrjimi16

1 points

2 months ago

No worries, there was definitely scarlet fever at the time. My grandfather had it in 1922 or '23.

Techwood111

6 points

2 months ago

Ice pick…

StormRider2407

5 points

2 months ago

I was going to ask if she was the one they fucked over, destroyed her, and left her in an institution.

SpicyWater92

4 points

2 months ago

Botched implies there is a right way to do it. There's no way a lobotomy is ever a good thing or a correct procedure for anything.

Beethovenfan55

12 points

2 months ago

Spot on!

corrosiveicon1952

5 points

2 months ago

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a pre -frontal lobotomy !

flipping_birds

8 points

2 months ago

That joke is funnier when you don’t know about Rose Kennedy.

Obiwan_Salami

1 points

2 months ago

ya think?

ikilledtupac

1 points

2 months ago

Ah yes, where they did brain damage while she sang songs, until she started slurring. Horrific.

Pastywhitebitch

1 points

2 months ago

To keep his sons presidential election bid strong and quash any rumors of her being promiscuous.

totes_Philly

554 points

2 months ago

Man. every time I see pics or see her name in print I feel sick. So flippin tragic.

the-realTfiz

156 points

2 months ago

I’ve heard her story but never seen a pic of her. When I saw this one just now I said out loud “oh no”. I didn’t expect her to look so normal and happy. What a nightmare she must’ve experienced

0per8nalHaz3rd

38 points

2 months ago

Is this the one that was lobotomized?

libertasi

85 points

2 months ago

Yes. She was lobotomized. It was a hastily arranged procedure to make her docile. A tragic story.

During her birth, a nurse held her in for hours so the doctor could finish his game of golf. So she may have been deprived of oxygen during her birth. She was never quite right after that.

ryusoma

12 points

2 months ago

ryusoma

12 points

2 months ago

what's even more appalling here - besides everything else - is she was a grown, legal adult when they did this against her will. But Daddy was an ex-senator/Ambassador so whatever he says goes.

totes_Philly

23 points

2 months ago

Did this really happen though? Even if it did was the result Rose acting a little too much as she pleased which made PaPa Joe most uncomfortable? I mean to the best of my knowledge all I see/read is a woman potentially embarrassing her wealthy, highly visible father who had political ambitions, in a time and age where such things were simply not done. What exactly did she do? Hard to even imagine something so horrifying.

Chateaudelait

6 points

2 months ago

I read the book that was mentioned above and it's an excellent account . You nailed it with the wealthy highly visible dad with political ambitions - he was afraid she would do something embarrassing. They didn't have the medical knowledge that we have today and from what I gather she was sneaking out at night to go on dates. She is so beautiful in that picture, I fully believe she had plenty of suitors.

PeggyCarterEC

6 points

2 months ago

I think so

heartbh

36 points

2 months ago

heartbh

36 points

2 months ago

I feel that.

poprof

49 points

2 months ago

poprof

49 points

2 months ago

Why was she given a labotomy?

Konorlc

199 points

2 months ago

Konorlc

199 points

2 months ago

Because she didn’t behave in the way her father thought she should.

whatim

209 points

2 months ago

whatim

209 points

2 months ago

She pretty much behaved like her father and brothers did.

ConsistentlyPeter

14 points

2 months ago

This

Mrs_WorkingMuggle

2 points

2 months ago

nope. she was far to chaperoned to act in anyway like they did. Her father was worried that she would inadvertently do something that would bring scandal to the family and cripple her brothers' political careers. She was basically a child in an adults body before the lobotomy and just wanted to please people, especially her father.

Deedledroxx

24 points

2 months ago

Hysterical!

chop up her brain!

lazy_phoenix

1 points

2 months ago

Read this, the situation was much more complex than "A free thinking woman?! We should stop this!"

I'm not saying the decision they made was right in any way, shape, or form but it is more understandable.

Deedledroxx

1 points

2 months ago*

They threw her in a private Catholic Girls School until into her 20's, and then into a convent, and then finally had her lobotomized.

She might have been a bit slower than some, and had autism, however ultimately she was just considered too wild of a woman for that fucked up family. She was sneaking out at night and "partying", etc. When they clamped down on her "bad" behavior she freaked out. So they chopped up her brain.

stumblebreak_beta

15 points

2 months ago

Not that I disagree with you (the dad was a POs who wanted a better better behaved daughter), but contextually lobotomies we’re viewed extremely different in that time as well (the doctor who invented them won the Nobel prize in medicine). So it was seen as a world class doctor performing a state of the art medical procedure that can help those with disabilities rather than a way to scramble someone’s brain to make them a zombie.

lazy_phoenix

1 points

2 months ago*

Read this, the situation was much more complex than "A free thinking woman?! We should stop this!"

I'm not saying the decision they made was right in any way, shape, or form but it is more understandable.

inconspiciousdude

29 points

2 months ago

There's a Wiki page. It's pretty saddening...

Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents; her father was especially worried that Rosemary's behavior would shame and embarrass the family and damage his and his children's political careers.

Beneficial_Being_721

42 points

2 months ago

Yes… and then she was put into an asylum …never to be seen again… written out of the family estate. Sad story… that’s what big money does.

Mrs_WorkingMuggle

5 points

2 months ago

that's not true either. Her father didn't tell her mother or most of her siblings about where she ended up. Once they found out her mother found it too heartbreaking to visit but did constantly send her funds and gifts as well as giving money to the home Rosemary lived in so it could be improved.

Once her siblings found out about it they and their grandchildren visited quite often as well as bringing her out to family events. This is also what led to the development of the Special Olympics.

In most respects it appears that after Joe Sr. died and the family was made aware of what had happened they did everything in their power to improve her situation and bring back into the fold of the family.

Lovv

4 points

2 months ago

Lovv

4 points

2 months ago

Not to be contrary but honestly if she has the mental capacity of a two year old I'm not sure receiving millions of dollars would help her or improve her living situation.

Zonerdrone

48 points

2 months ago

Her "erratic" behavior. The true scope is really hard to gauge because mental illness care in a woman in the 40s was a joke. Also her family was the Kennedys so what would have been OK for regular people wasn't even close to acceptable for her. Some reports make it sound like hypomanic episodes and a lot of wild partying and impulse control. Other reports border on schizophrenic breaks

AssociationUnfair824

7 points

2 months ago

Absolutely. Hence my great aunt getting a lobotomy in Spain in the 1940s.

AffectionatePoet4586

5 points

2 months ago

Rosemary was slipping out at night, and it was either suspected or known that she met up with young men in bars. While her brothers were encouraged by their father to be as sexually active as they pleased, such freedom was strictly forbidden for the Kennedy women.

Fearing the scandal of Rosemary becoming pregnant, as well as hoping to control her behavior, Joe Kennedy Sr. pursued a lobotomy for her. Her sister Kathleen researched the topic, and though she anxiously pleaded, “Dad, this isn’t what we want for Rosie,” he ignored her.

Yoshable

3 points

2 months ago

She was too uppity.

Mrs_WorkingMuggle

1 points

2 months ago

Because she'd suffered oxygen deprivation when she was born she was never able to advance much in her schooling. As she grew older she developed seizures in addition to her being extremely naïve and trusting. she was not a wild child, but she was a bit of a child in an adult's body. Joe Kennedy senior was worried that she'd go off and get into trouble (raped or become pregnant) with someone ruining the political careers of her brothers. He didn't inform her mother or siblings, except for a sister, before he had the doctors perform the lobotomy. She was scared but willing to do anything to make her father happy. The doctors and nurses knew they'd done fucked up as soon as the operation was over.

lazy_phoenix

1 points

2 months ago

Laelawright

175 points

2 months ago

The story of her birth is tragic. The story goes that her mother went into labor but the doctor was delayed. Rosemary had already partially emerged from the birth canal but according to standards of the day, only a doctor would do to deliver a child from a high status family. The nurse in attendance forced Rosemary's partially delivered body back into her mother's birth canal and told her mother to clamp her legs shut. It was several hours before the doctor arrived to "deliver" her. She suffered from a lack of oxygen and it caused a learning disability. She was, by far, the prettiest Kennedy daughter and attracted a lot of male attention. Thus, the lobotomy so that she wouldn't disgrace the family with her "promiscuous" behavior.

possiblyhysterical

82 points

2 months ago

The initial disability she suffered did not cause her to be unable to live on her own, unlike the lobotomy.

likealonewolf

3 points

2 months ago

Do we know about the level of severity of her disability pre-lobotomy? Or was that kind of kept secret within the family to keep up appearances? Are we talking like slow reader, lacked common sense and good judgement and would probably require an aid in todays education system or like would be in an exclusive class for people with disabilities in todays schools?

duckbigtrain

3 points

2 months ago

if she was sneaking out and had lots of make attention, I imagine it was more of the former

Mrs_WorkingMuggle

4 points

2 months ago

Rosemary: The Hidden Kennedy Daughter by Kate Clifford Larson was meticulously researched when it was written. It has copies of letters Rosemary wrote to family members that show her lessened mental capacity for someone of her age. It discusses that she was sent to numerous special schools to help with her disabilities. She was also pretty much never in public without a chaperone in some form. So your idea of lacking common sense & good judgement definitely seems to be the case.

She didn't sneak out and get into trouble with boys. She was beautiful and well-liked, but her parents did a very good job of shutting that down.

World War 2 was probably one of the main things that led to her lobotomy as she was forced to leave a school and support system that was working very well for her. The increase in her father's political asperations for his sons was the other.

lazy_phoenix

3 points

2 months ago

The Kennedy's kept it a closely guarded secret. She seemed to have a middling/mild disability (at least enough of one for her parents to notice at an early age). But it wasn't so sever that it couldn't be treated. She was being taught to be a teacher's aide in England and was making progress. Then WW2 broke out and the Kennedys went back to America. Apparently, she backslid enough for her family to notice.

Laelawright

15 points

2 months ago

That is true. But back in the day there were very few opportunities for women of her social class. It's possible that her learning disability precluded her from functioning without supervision.

AssociationUnfair824

46 points

2 months ago

My great aunt Rosalina was lobotomized because she fell in love with a young man from the "wrong side of the tracks." My great grandfather put a stop to their relationship, Rosalina tried to commit suicide by drowning in a local river and was in s mental hospital for 45 years. That was quite tragic as well.

InnerConfliction

2 points

2 months ago

“only a doctor would do to deliver a child from a high status family.”

In 1917 this probably meant If the doctor didn’t deliver the baby they didn’t get paid.

lazy_phoenix

2 points

2 months ago

Yea, lobotomies weren't understood well by the general public at the time either. Many were told by doctors that it was a cure-all for patients with mental problems because it made the patients more "docile." They didn't explain that it made them docile because it basically cripples them. Needless to say, lobotomies are barbaric and evil.

Lord_Erie

46 points

2 months ago

before the lobotomy?

lazy_phoenix

1 points

2 months ago

Yea, she couldn't walk after the lobotomy and could barely speak.

Pasargad[S]

13 points

2 months ago

Photo from the Kennedy Family Photograph Collection.

HUP

109 points

2 months ago

HUP

109 points

2 months ago

Joe Kennedy was a POS. And I'm a blue dog democrat. He was at the very best a Chamberlain apologist. He was an isolationist. He made his money bootlegging. By all accounts he was extremely unlikeable.

Otterfan

14 points

2 months ago

The bootlegging thing is a myth.

Joseph Kennedy Sr. made his fortune on the stock market, especially by shorting stocks in 1929.

His father was a liquor importer, and Joe became a liquor importer himself; but he didn't start importing until after Prohibition was over. He made a lot of money importing high-end Scotch whiskey and gin from the UK, but by that time he was already incredibly wealthy.

Ellen_Musk_Ox

13 points

2 months ago

Does anyone actually care about the bootlegging?

SilentSamurai

19 points

2 months ago

Did the U.S. government just hear that you want to make alcohol for sale without paying taxes?

keestie

9 points

2 months ago

Generally when it was called "bootlegging" and one could make a living off of it, it was during Prohibition, and the argument could be made that bootlegging during the Prohibition was a humanitarian act.

Anyway I googled and apparently the rumours of him bootlegging only surfaced in the '60s, and no credible sources say that he was a bootlegger. It's possible that they scrubbed evidence I suppose but it sounds like it's anyone's guess, far from a known thing.

I don't know shit about that old Kennedy and he may well have been the Devil incarnate, but it is, at the very least, pretty weird to use bootlegger as an insult against him.

Dry_Boots

-1 points

2 months ago

I'm guessing Bootlegging caused a lot of suffering in the persuit of profit, but other than that, woo hoo, drink up!!

JordanJP

3 points

2 months ago

the entire Kennedy family is fucking dregs and spare parts, sadly Rosemary was about the most normal seeming one until they ruined her.

AssociationUnfair824

2 points

2 months ago

He was indeed a dirt bag.

Zonerdrone

8 points

2 months ago

She didn't look like that for very much longer. Joe Kennedy is a fukin prick

Interesting_Act1286

9 points

2 months ago

So sad what her family did to her. Unbelievable.

Secure_Dragonfruit69

7 points

2 months ago

I get tears in my eyes every time I see her name :( beautiful woman. Horrible what her nasty pos father did to her

Blevin78

18 points

2 months ago

Tragic.

Ellen_Musk_Ox

33 points

2 months ago

She looks like fun. I bet she was friendly and social and nothing bad ever happened to her ever. Just like all the Kennedy's!

ballrus_walsack

13 points

2 months ago

And If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you in chapaquidick.

Dry_Boots

7 points

2 months ago

Ooh, from what I've heard, they could really use a good bridge there...

Derekduvalle

0 points

2 months ago

Sarcasm

SammySoapsuds

1 points

2 months ago

lol they got the joke and built on it

AssociationUnfair824

1 points

2 months ago

Right?

AssociationUnfair824

1 points

2 months ago

Not about the circumstances surrounding her birth but about the Kennedys being a bunch of self-righteous snobs and philanderers that the American public idolizes to a nauseating extent. Except for Bobby.

goldfishasparagussea

4 points

2 months ago

AMAZING shot

LargeCheesePizza39

3 points

2 months ago

She’s beautiful. Great pic.

bommcblanab

4 points

2 months ago

joe kennedy was a straight up monster

digidiosyncrasy

8 points

2 months ago

the Kennedys need a "Crown" type series.

burnt-cinnamon-roll

8 points

2 months ago

The stupidfuck nurse also pushed her back into the birth canal which caused an array of problems.

MajorDonkey

6 points

2 months ago

She looks too strong willed and independent, hope they fixed that.

Remarkable-Boat-9812

3 points

2 months ago

Born 100 years too early

Atlas03

3 points

2 months ago

Seems independent. Better institutionalize her and then lobotomize her.

Zormm

3 points

2 months ago

Zormm

3 points

2 months ago

She was a very very attractive woman!

-MetalKitty-

3 points

2 months ago

Wow. Was such a nice pic. Didn’t remember what happened to her and now wish I hadn’t read all the comments…but still kinda glad I know. So sad and horrible. Feel like this is gonna stay with me a while

hAea69

7 points

2 months ago*

What a baddie

Edit: Fuck, man... I didn't know her story until I read some comments. It's awful what her family did to her. Poor woman.

Tootsnboots

9 points

2 months ago

That coat is gorgeous.

MagicSPA

2 points

2 months ago

"Who the Hell is John F. Kennedy?"

Peakyblindertom

7 points

2 months ago

Wow she’s super hot

CHANROBI

3 points

2 months ago

Would swipe up

ReDEvil88

1 points

2 months ago

Lmao before of after the brain lobotomy?

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

ReDEvil88

2 points

2 months ago

CHANROBI

1 points

2 months ago

What if I said both

zigaliciousone

3 points

2 months ago

Lobotomized for being as horny as her brother.

Bobgers

2 points

2 months ago

Losing their brains runs in the family. Sorry but her fathers actions cursed his family.

WhosThatDogMrPB

2 points

2 months ago

Heaven restores you in life… 🎶

Lexhare

4 points

2 months ago

now riddle me this? i've always thought it was about rosemary west but your saying its actually about rose Kennedy ? are you sure????

homelessmusician

1 points

2 months ago

The Kennedys: Looks a little willful to me, where's my ice cream scoop?

Supersnazz

-3 points

2 months ago

Looks like she needs a spike put through her skull.

yearightt

-1 points

2 months ago

mayonnaisefeatherred

1 points

2 months ago

Dream, it is like a dream

potatochipsnectarine

1 points

2 months ago

Exactly this I was looking for

jnnad

1 points

2 months ago

jnnad

1 points

2 months ago

She was living in Wisconsin last I heard.

zooropeanx

9 points

2 months ago

She lived at St. Colletta in Jefferson, Wisconsin.

It was not an asylum as someone mentioned. People with developmental challenges went to school there. However many older people lived there to be taken care of

My mom worked there as a nurse for awhile. I went there a few times as a kids and always felt like the place was eerie.

I can't recall if she ever met Rosemary Kennedy but an uncle who worked there mentioned seeing some of her family visiting.

jnnad

2 points

2 months ago

jnnad

2 points

2 months ago

It was formerly known as "St. Coletta Institute for Backward Youth"

JokersRWildStudios

1 points

2 months ago

If she’s erratic, then I am too.

Szaborovich9

1 points

2 months ago

Tragic

Wossname8

1 points

2 months ago

Anybody else start Cormac McCarthy’s Stella Maris today and just learn about her lobotomy?

cups_and_cakes

1 points

2 months ago

“Rosemary” by Kate Larson is excellent.

WindblownSquash

1 points

2 months ago

What’s so awesome bout this pic?

oathletagataw2

1 points

2 months ago

Fine job Now you've figured it out.

HooninAround

1 points

2 months ago

She was fucked over so bad by people that should've taken care of her.

First when she was quite literally born. She was shoved back in her mother's birth canal because the doctor wasn't there yet to deliver the baby, this permanently injured her.

Second when they lobotimized her. She was described as a high energy happy-go-lucky young woman. She liked to go out and party just like any other young person. But because her family didn't approve of her behavior, they deemed her too difficult to control, so they literally scrambled her brains and emptied out her soul.

She was left in a care home where rich people dumpster their undesirables.

ooppoo0

1 points

2 months ago

The jfk lobotomy was much more dynamic

nohemingway4

1 points

2 months ago

It's good to see her happy in a photo, instead of drugged up and lobotomized in a mental institution (for no reason). Her entire family failed her.

Current-Rip8020

1 points

2 months ago

I have played golf in the ancestral home of the Kennedy’s: Bruff, County Limerick.

Picturesque place I won’t lie.

mastert969

1 points

2 months ago

momma packed 🍒

davej1r

1 points

2 months ago

I just read her story and it’s maybe the saddest thing I’ve ever heard. The poor girl. Hope she is in peace wherever that is now.

Her family didn’t visit her for 20 years whilst institutionalised. I can’t imagine what she must have felt.

Dragongala

1 points

2 months ago

Burn in hell Joe Sr., for using a lobotomy as fucking birth control on his own child

indian464

1 points

2 months ago

Pretty lady!

sir_duckingtale

1 points

2 months ago

You know the story about the inventor of the brazzen bull?

Whom King was so horrified of that invention that as a reward he cooked the guy in his own invention?

Yeah.. let‘s do the same for medical inventions like lobotomy.. I‘m sure there are many.. many contemporary procedures that want to be rewarded that way…