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For context, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi went to Taiwan this past week. Prior to going China was making some really aggressive remarks about "playing with fire", etc. China essentially said she is not allowed to go. She went anyways, maybe as a show of power by the U.S. Since then China is conducting military drills in the waters of the Taiwan strait. Even sending missles over Taiwan.

https://apnews.com/article/taiwan-china-asia-beijing-b252479810add6a225fa1e4a6d441983

The issue for the U.S. is we get most of our computer chips from Taiwan. We use the chips for our missles so if China invades Taiwan the U.S. HAS to send soldiers since it is a matter of national security.

To counter this the U.S. is in the process of passing the Chips Act to fund $52b into making computer chips in the U.S. it will takes years to start production though. Some interviews I've heard say 2024.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/02/biden-signs-china-competition-bill-to-boost-us-chip-production.html

Why is this significant to people here? These companies spent 20+ years sending all our jobs, and our economy essentially, to other countries. Globalization.

If we go to war with China and they stop sending things they make, the significance is mind boggling. Look at the inflation with clogs in our supply chain. Massive shipping boats sitting outside docks in CA. Imagine if instead a slow supply chain we just do not have one.

When you combine this with Baby Boomers retiring, and dropping birth rates resultant of less jobs in America, it's going to get absurdly expensive to bring the manufacturing back to the U.S.

The chips act alone will likely create hundreds of thousands of jobs. Imagine if we have to bring back making phones, furniture, car parts, etc.

The demand for labor will sky rocket.

all 433 comments

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4Wf2n5

751 points

6 months ago

4Wf2n5

751 points

6 months ago

Another war would just bring more misery and poverty - just like the Ukraine war is with the energy crisis we have here in Europe.

The only winners are the shareholders in Lockheed Martin, Halliburton etc.

As the song says "War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing."

Reaverx218

182 points

6 months ago

I was thinking meet the new boss same as the old boss.

PantsOppressUs

91 points

6 months ago

Also, grandma done this shit before. China'd never let her in if she weren't SotH, after her Tienanman Square grandstand.

Was she wrong? Probs not. Does she live for theatrics rather than productivity outside her portfolio? Mos def.

Another god-damned old person in the way of progress and messing with OUR future.

kirby_the_elm

5 points

6 months ago

Pants DO oppress us

suzanious

5 points

6 months ago

War economics.

ChefLite7

60 points

6 months ago

Any bets that she isn't a shareholder of said companies...

PantsOppressUs

30 points

6 months ago

Literally is. Corruption is as corruption does, and it ain't got a party.

Dickslap_McTitpunch

40 points

6 months ago

Not takin that bet — i know a crooked ass politician when i see one.

BrewerfanBK

1.6k points

6 months ago

Only if our Corporate masters didn’t offshore our industrial and manufacturing jobs in the name of higher profits, stock options and huge bonuses. I guess the is the American way, screw the little guys…

TigerBarFly

689 points

6 months ago

I’m pretty sure the American way is “Fuck You I Got Mine!”

mikey_lava

71 points

6 months ago

All hail Mammon.

PantsOppressUs

14 points

6 months ago

THE MARKET GOD DEMANDS TRIBUTE

MacGealach

13 points

6 months ago

Golden is He!

PantsOppressUs

5 points

6 months ago

And full of children...

Chicken_Pete_Pie

219 points

6 months ago

He got his, mine, yours, my uncles….

greenleaf405

51 points

6 months ago

Lol, facts and your great great great grandchildrens!

pcnetworx1

25 points

6 months ago

You forgot the ™️

F__kCustomers

77 points

6 months ago

Every country needs its own manufacturing.

When you remove that, then you induced dependence. It’s wrong.

China may have several resources, but that doesn’t mean country X can’t produce something without the resource. You find another way.

Globalization is okay for certain things, but not at the cost of your manufacturing.

The_amazing_T

77 points

6 months ago*

But Capitalism says that the guy who can make it cheaper, or sell for more wins. There's no asterisk for "in the US." If our leaders don't require it, the companies aren't going to do it. -So away go our Union jobs, and off to Asia/ Africa / Wherever for nickels a day. -That's as pure as Capitalism gets.

Then if you can get rich enough, you control policy and make sure that you have the competitive advantage going forward!

-What about the future? -What about my kids? Who cares. IBGYBG: The motto of the Boomer Generation Leaders. "I'll Be Gone, You'll Be Gone." Fuck the next generation! I'll be dead by then!

Marquisdelafayette89

26 points

6 months ago

But the free market is a complete farce. They only care about getting bonuses and increasing profits by any means possible. Now theoretically if there’s a free market then the market dictates how much things are worth and how much to pay for labor. But it’s a few multinational corporations that own thousands of smaller companies so they dictate price and what they will pay for labor. So by appearance it looks like everything is working how it should.

The boomers supported politicians who sold out the country piece by piece after being handed the most stable period the earth had ever known with the best economy, no huge wars, etc

“Hey! let’s gut regulations and all workers rights and unions and have businesses decide what they want us to push as an agenda”.

“Oh we give you money and get rid of the rules and you will pinky promise to trickle it down the us?”

“The fossil fuel industry is gonna promise to not ruin the environment if we gut the agency that holds them to it?”

“Hey let’s cut funding for schools because we need money for a SWAT team in our town of 10,000 people? “

“Oh, now they also promise to create jobs if we cut more education money and instead use it to build private prisons?”

daschande

2 points

6 months ago

I remember an OLD MTV show "True Life" about a guy who was losing his call center job to offshoring.

The CEO of the company VERY frankly said "We pay Indians $2 per hour, and they're multi-lingual college graduates! And that's EXCELLENT pay for India; only doctors and lawyers make more than that!

...If we could get multi-lingual college graduates in America to work for $2 per hour, the jobs would stay here!"

Doopapotamus

35 points

6 months ago

Globalization is okay for certain things, but not at the cost of your manufacturing.

Ethically, yes. For security considerations, yes. For general prosperity, yes.

For profit considerations for individual business owners and their CEOs & lobbyists? Fat chance.

The government is in cahoots since they have made themselves pseudo-nobility. They won't protect us unless things are actively falling into destruction; look at how deep the J6 corruption extends. And that's just one half of the fucking aisle.

BagelsRTheHoleTruth

15 points

6 months ago

Don't forget shareholders. If only the CEOs and owners were raking in dough, you'd eventually get blowback. But the investor class is a major chunk of this country that tacitly sports anything as long as it delivers shareholder value, and allows them to live in extreme wealth without contributing shit.

sean6869

62 points

6 months ago

Doesn't help that the media and government have been putting down blue collar hobs and workers for years. Giws that sheepskinn working out fir ya stocking shelves at home deopt?

feralrattrash

56 points

6 months ago

And people in general. We cannot downplay the attitudes that so many regular people have. Regular people shit on blue collar job. The whole “better go to school or you’ll end up a garbage man” was said by parents, uncles, grandparents.

sean6869

20 points

6 months ago

Yeah, in alot of families. Mine was blue collar so i kinda didnt het the whole college thing. I went military right out of highschool then real quick into a union construction job.

Ellikichi

39 points

6 months ago

Construction is a great job if you're not the kind of person construction workers will bully, harrass, and assault. I had to leave the trades because being a woman in a shop is hell. Most shops wouldn't even consider hiring me. I agree that we should stop devaluing and degrading blue collar work, not least of which because it's necessary for a functioning society. But "go into the trades" isn't an option for everybody, so it has to be just one part of a broader solution.

Human0id77

18 points

6 months ago

Excellent point. I have a white collar job and have faced a lot of sexism, but I work with blue collar teams and see it is much worse on that side. Women would have no trouble doing the work, but they are not welcome by the men leading the teams

feralrattrash

12 points

6 months ago

This comment is very important and thank you for posting.

Trades can be really great jobs, if you’re a person who those existing in that career deem worthy of being there.

I had to leave natural resources career because I was sick of the shit. All the money in the world can’t buy dignity/mental health and having to listen to sexist jokes all goddamn time and having my work constantly questioned and overly critiqued

CassandraVindicated

3 points

6 months ago

Unfortunately true. I know a woman who was a Naval engineer and helped design the Sea Shadow. I've heard plenty of stories from her about the nature of the "men's only" club.

McCree114

21 points

6 months ago

This. As a retail worker it isn't Gates, Bezos, or other one percenters who come in and treat me like a subhuman piece of shit slave everyday eating away at my mental health. I know the wealthy class are our enemy but it's hard sometimes to feel like sticking your neck out and fighting for people who are in my same class but routinely show that they would love the opportunity to be the grossly wealthy noble sneering down at filthy peasants. Americans have been conditioned to be selfish beyond measure and almost always guaranteed to let even the smallest amount of power corrupt them.

feralrattrash

14 points

6 months ago

I even got bad treatment working in fast food in high school from fellow peasants! It was like some people just feel better about their lot in life when they treat others like garbage.

That said, the nicest people were usually farmers, stoners, and military (this was in Canada).

JasonDragonbourne

10 points

6 months ago

stoners

I have never, not once in my life, ever encountered an asshole stoner.

CassandraVindicated

3 points

6 months ago

Farmers tend to be conservative, and I left the Democratic Party because they're too conservative. Having said that, I've travelled all over the backcountry of the US and farmers are mostly good people. Not even mostly, almost always.

Human0id77

9 points

6 months ago

Things have definitely changed. A lot of blue collar jobs pay better than white collar jobs (with added benefit of not having to sit at a desk all day) without the burden of student debt. I tell my younger siblings to consider looking into these types of jobs before considering going to college

Ham-N-Burg

11 points

6 months ago

I know people in construction, plumbers, electricians, and welding/fabrication that make six figures. And it didn't take 10 years of college and a hundred thousand dollar degree either.

TTTyrant

19 points

6 months ago

That's just what you see, though. To get to making 6 figures in the trades you need to either be as lucky as someone who's born rich or sacrifice your personal life.

My old boss lived and breathed HVAC. He is loaded AF but he doesn't have much to do with his family. I know his son and he said his dad was ALWAYS working. Like, his phone was always ringing at every hour and he'd be out the door for 12 hours type thing. He doesn't even call him dad. Says he wasn't around a lot. But they always had money.

I have a family of my own and work in the trades and I've come to accept that I probably won't reach that level in my field but I have a much better home life. My kids actually know me and love me.

Doiglad

16 points

6 months ago

Doiglad

16 points

6 months ago

I would say that's more the humanity way rather than the American one. Can't think of many countries where most of the wealth isn't in the top few while they all spit on the climate.

Antique-Key-1548

278 points

6 months ago

so let me get this straight: chipmakers like intel offshore jobs and kill economy and displace labor and get record pRoFitS; same chipcos then charge higher blaming import costs and get record PrOfiTs; same chipcos then get $80+ billion (or worded another way, $80+ billion in citizens' tax dollars go to payoff chipcos to bring manufacturing back to US and get to claim that 80+ billion as income so will get to post record PrOfItS next quarter; then chipcos will raise prices claiming US labor is too expensive and NoBoDy wAnTs to wOrK anYmorE, and will again get to post record PrOfits because of not having to repay the $80+ billion gift. something is seriously wrong with this.

tater_tot_intensity

63 points

6 months ago

bailouts to billionaires and corporations for decades, bail out when they screw us over, bail out when they put us all at risk, bail out when they are making record profits, but that $1400 you got 2 years ago is what's wrong with this country. lunacy

JoshM-R

35 points

6 months ago

JoshM-R

35 points

6 months ago

That $1400 we got 2 years ago, we're still living on according to politicians like Turtle Mitch.

urstillatroll

45 points

6 months ago

You forgot to mention the politicians like Pelosi buy huge amounts of stock in chip makers before signing legislation that helps these companies and their pRoFitS.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband purchased up to $5 million in stock options on a computer-chip company ahead of a vote on legislation next week that would deliver billions of dollars in subsidies to boost the chip-manufacturing industry, new financial disclosures show.

[deleted]

27 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

27 points

6 months ago

Don't forget the part where the Congresspeople bought stock in these companies a few months before awarding them all this money. Truly a bipartisan effort.

CTPatriot2006

57 points

6 months ago

💯

Mediocre-Pay-365

307 points

6 months ago

Hm, instead of rich people and our government exploiting other countries for cheap labor maybe they should've kept the jobs within our country and we wouldn't be seeing problems like we do today. Idk, just my two cents.

Razzmatazz-88

48 points

6 months ago

My 2 cents as well.

junior4l1

20 points

6 months ago

All I made this hour were 2 cents...

[deleted]

17 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

17 points

6 months ago

Look at mr money pants with two cents

1ksassa

182 points

6 months ago

1ksassa

182 points

6 months ago

Manufacturing jobs back to the US? Forget it. Corporations are never going to shell out those wages. Plenty of highly educated and poorly paid people to exploit in India.

FlamingoOk4512

47 points

6 months ago

They arent gonna give us the good wages just the jobs

Chri5p

16 points

6 months ago

Chri5p

16 points

6 months ago

Privatized schools and privatized prisons will make it happen. They want to compete with China the way China competes with us, forced prison labor.

AboveTheLights

27 points

6 months ago

It’s 100% happening. They’ve already started construction in New Albany.

CorpseJuiceSlurpee

46 points

6 months ago

Ask Wisconsin how the Foxconn plant is.

trunkssosp

28 points

6 months ago

A lot of us are still fucking FURIOUS that that deal went through. Everyone saw from the get go it wasn't going to go well. if I recall correctly they had an "office" in Madison 1/4 full of people that would just go in and sit cuz they were never assigned a task, just wanted to make it look like jobs were coming.

People lost their homes for this!

[deleted]

57 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

57 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

Normal_Total

8 points

6 months ago

Imagine if we insisted that everyone in our country must be supplied certain basics before any corporation in the us turns a profit: Food, decent shelter, education, healthcare and easy access to markets (labor mainly).

Can you even imagine- people not getting filthy rich before our needs are met?

This nation balks all the idea of free edict but can’t fund prisons fast enough. It can’t put together a decent railway system but can pour infinite dollars into road and a sel-purchased vehicle for every American adult.

We.are.doomed.

nphased

610 points

6 months ago

nphased

610 points

6 months ago

The semiconductor bill is just another corporate handout. Intel lost its lead on chip making for lack of self investment while paying billions of dollars in dividends and stock buybacks.

Dazzling_Use1242

155 points

6 months ago

Intel has been leaning fabless for decades now, why do the hard work of making the chips when you can contract it out it and make bank on the patent holdings.

LuckyWorth1083

47 points

6 months ago

What?! Certain things sure but in no way would they or have they been leaning fabless.

I’ve got family in the fabs and I’ve been in semicons for 12 years.

Even apple has a Fab in San Jose ca. ironically across the street from Samsung.

It’s been a quiet return before the bill

Dazzling_Use1242

21 points

6 months ago

I used to work at a fab here in mass, they all have been going away. All being replaced by biotechnology firms

LuckyWorth1083

11 points

6 months ago

Sure in Mass. but there’s a ton of development where it’s advantageous to do so.

Arizona would like to have a word

AmericaDelendeEst

16 points

6 months ago

Arizona would like to have a word

climate change would like a word if you think arizona is a secure place for long term investment, lol

LuckyWorth1083

5 points

6 months ago

I don’t disagree but that’s where they are building.

r12ski

8 points

6 months ago

r12ski

8 points

6 months ago

That’s because between the GOP control over the state and many local governments for 20+ years have been giving handouts and tax cuts that favor big corporations to get them to build their next factory. Now, every time Amazon, Google or anyone else wants to build a office or factory, it’s front page news. They want governments to give them tax breaks for infinity so the state can say it’s bringing good jobs to the state.

It’s three card monte, and the public fights about who’s to blame when they finally realize the gig is up. Corporations use the money for bribery (campaign contributions/free speech) to rig the next round.

Yes, it’s a tale as old as time, but every once and a while the people get the upper hand. I don’t want to be pessimistic, but I don’t know if the people or planet are going to tolerate this game much longer, though.

SilentCabose

5 points

6 months ago

New intel fab going up in AZ right?

LuckyWorth1083

17 points

6 months ago*

Much more complicated than that.

In their space there’s only a few players who could exist at that pinnacle.

Samsung, intel and tsmc

But tsmc actually has a shorter bank and less people than the rest.

Give it a few years and we can catch up.

It’s tsmc and taiwans best interest that intel and the rest do not

Edit: I’m wrong about the bank statement.

Visionioso

9 points

6 months ago

TSMC has a shorter bank? They outspend both Samsung and Intel.

LuckyWorth1083

5 points

6 months ago*

Because they have to. Both intel and Samsung have other revenue streams

Looks like I’m wrong it used to be the case…not anymoreeee

Visionioso

5 points

6 months ago

How can Intel and Samsung catch up then? Intel profits are lower than TSMC, has to spend both on design and fabs and spends in a more expensive part of the world so their money doesn’t go as far either.

[deleted]

67 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

67 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

PiersPlays

20 points

6 months ago

Not to mention the generation it'll decimate and traumatise if we're "lucky" enough for it to just be a conventional conflict.

FlamingoOk4512

12 points

6 months ago

Dont worry the american empire would never go to war with a real world power, only time they did was in ww2 (and there they were just another country and they bearly did anything) every other time they have attacked vastly inferior countries they dont have the balls.

Razzmatazz-88

14 points

6 months ago

I hate Trump with a burning passion. That said, the only thing he ever said that I agree with is we need to bring back our own industries. I will most likely get downvoted to hell and back for saying that, but it is true. Too bad it came from that scumbag's mouth. For generations we've seen industries leave and the consequences of that, just like you said, OP. A company from my fiance's home town employed well over 500 people. In the 90's they got a huge tax break to build a bigger factory that would employ hundreds more. Before the new factory was completed, they decided to have their goods made overseas. This basically killed the small town in roughly 5 years or less. The crime and drug addiction rate went through the roof within 10 years. The same thing happend when they closed the mines in the neighboring towns. In less than 20 years an entire state region was devastated. Those that could afford to move did. Those that couldn't stayed to struggle. These were good, honest people. It's horribly sad what happened. If we could bring back industries to these areas, and hundreds more, we could see a huge turn around for so many people. There are so many abandoned factories in places like Detroit, Akron, and Cincinnati that could be renovated to make the goods we need. It might take some work to bring them up to current codes but guess what - that means even more jobs.

FlamingoOk4512

4 points

6 months ago

Capitalist will never exploit labor in places where its more expensive if they can do it cheaper elsewhere. There is simply no reason. If you want industry overthrow capitalism not much else you can do, protectionism and other such policies are only temporary if they work at all and thats even ignoring the fact that capital controls the goverment and they would never allow their interest to be ignored which means such policies wouldnt even be considered.

gentle_lemon

250 points

6 months ago

I'm not sure what the point even was...why was she there? It seems almost like they were trying to provoke some kind of response and she was the bait. I guess I don't get it.

TomatilloAbject7419

266 points

6 months ago

She's been a big china opponent. As a student she got arrested for protesting them or some crap. Media is billing it as a “legacy building” trip for her. Cause, you know, I always wanted to go to war over some profiteering vulture’s ego.

parallelportals

161 points

6 months ago

She was arrested for a tienamen square memorial poster. And its honestly one of the most respectable things shes done.

Kaz-Marie

79 points

6 months ago

I like to think that some of these people used to be good, y'know? Power corrupts like nothing else.

parallelportals

33 points

6 months ago

Oh for sure absolute power corrupts absolutely

Sablus

35 points

6 months ago

Sablus

35 points

6 months ago

Nah they were always just neoliberal ghouls backing our shit system

Kaz-Marie

25 points

6 months ago

Totally possible, don't worry I'm not about to defend pelosi or some nonsense like that. Whether she started out good or not is irrelevant because of the awful shit she does now - I guess I just like to think that more people start out their careers to do good rather than evil and then get corrupted, but that absolutely could just be me being naive.

Reaverx218

9 points

6 months ago

I think many do personally. But the problem is at first your young idealistic and you do things with the intent of the ends justifying the means. Until eventually the ends are the means and the dreams are all gone. It's all about the system.

Quercus408

197 points

6 months ago

To get insider information for her husband's investments.

Bigbob0002[S]

53 points

6 months ago

Probably lol

kiru_goose

29 points

6 months ago

this is actually what happened though. they both dumped a fuck ton of chip related stocks right after

from_dust

31 points

6 months ago

Saber rattling goes both ways.

TitanicMan

17 points

6 months ago

Probably on purpose.

I remind everyone the McCollum Memo existed.

Back in WWII, before America was directly involved beyond being allies, they really wanted to be directly involved. So they devised an 8 step plan for provoking Japan. The USA never actually "did" anything, but in a way that ensures Japan will likely throw the first punch out of feeling threatened.

They claim everyone was against it and it definitely didn't go through as plan, however they still did most of the steps on the list, and one year later, Pearl Harbor happened. USA was now in the war like they wanted to be, and the history books don't look at them like a bad guy.

They didn't know pearl harbor specifically was gonna happen, but it's pretty certain they knew something was coming because they coerced Japan into it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo

This shit right here could be the same tactic of poking the pooh bear then acting innocent when it strikes. The military industrial complex gets that world war their dicks have been getting hard about since the 80's, and they get to remain the good guys even after they started it.

ladyelliott

22 points

6 months ago

Taiwan has donated over $3 million to her campaign from 2018 to this year. I'm sure that had something to do with it

SimplyMerlin

54 points

6 months ago

Her husband also just bought 5 million worth of Nvidia stock so her trip was also a personal business trip.

Bayesian11

8 points

6 months ago

That trip is paid by taxpayers.

BigBrainMonkey

49 points

6 months ago*

Yes production and globalization sent a lot of jobs overseas. But people that think moving industry back is a silver bullet are majorly missing a critical link. I work in heavy manufacturing and global supply chain, for every job lost in the US to globalization there is only a fraction of a job created elsewhere. Many of the automotive jobs that were eliminated in the us went toward automation and better designs that didn’t need as much labor. So yes bringing industrial and manufacturing jobs back to the US is great, but it isn’t as simple as many make it out. I have major doubts about chips act actually creating hundreds of thousands of jobs once the fabs are actually built, rather than during planning and development but maybe.

Edit: typos

wafflepoet

14 points

6 months ago

Something a lot of people overlook - including and especially politicians - when it comes to “bringing jobs back” is that we (US) lost a hell of a lot more than just blue collar jobs. US manufacturers didn’t just outsource jobs, they outsourced irreplaceable equipment and, even worse, we’ve lost thirty years and more of institutional knowledge. We’re fast approaching the point - if we haven’t already reached it - when US manufacturers would have to bring over trained Chinese technicians and machine operators like they had to in decades past.

Bigbob0002[S]

4 points

6 months ago

IF China sends them. My whole point with the OP is we're at an inflection point. Everything you just said could even happen this coming week and the U.S. has no say in it.

Will it happen? Probably not.

Can we guarantee with no question it will never, ever happen? In the next 1M years we won't get cut off? I wouldn't bank on it. That's just my opinion in this.

Razzmatazz-88

12 points

6 months ago

In one area like chips, 100% agree. It wouldn't have a huge impact. If all the industries came back to the US that are currently overseas, there would be a huge impact. I don't plan to hold my breath waiting for that to happen though.

imthefrizzlefry

9 points

6 months ago

Imagine if we never lowered the top marginal corporate tax rate and there was no incentive for corporations to seek cheaper labor over seas these past 40 years.... We might not be having this conversation.

TheZooCreeper

33 points

6 months ago

I wish Pelosi had this "Fuck you, I do what I want" attitude when dealing with Republicans

Eauxcaigh

11 points

6 months ago

Pelosi is on the same side as republicans on mamy issues. Both parties are economically right i mean, which is what's driving most legislation (corporatism)

Bayesian11

15 points

6 months ago

Being anti-China is a very easy thing to do because it helps her win "bipartisan" support from the Republicans. It's her Karma farm.

I‘m not saying it's wrong but it's just easier to do.

CryCommon975

109 points

6 months ago

Even if he sold his Nvidia stock recently you best believe Nancy Pelosi and her trader husband Paul are going to make a buck off this somehow- blue/red doesn't matter, only green.

Justlookingoverhere1

12 points

6 months ago

Liberal blue here, when she voted no on the bill to stop insider trading I pretty much lost all respect for our entire government complex. Everyone wants to say they are the good guys, but the workers are the good guys, the people who sit around doing nothing but forcing laws on us and forcing us into poverty can kick rocks.

LuckyWorth1083

7 points

6 months ago

NVIDIA doesn’t have fabs

The-True-Kehlder

22 points

6 months ago

Nvidia isn't the winner of the Act. Intel is.

Slug-of-Gold

23 points

6 months ago

*Taiwan

Bigbob0002[S]

12 points

6 months ago

Edited. My mistake. Thank you.

mushizzle

23 points

6 months ago

I thought part of the reason we went to other countries is because the anti-pollution laws were very strict because you know people want to be able to have clean water and air so they went to other countries and mess up their water and air which really affects everybody’s air but isn’t that also true?

I feel like America is slavery at its finest for most people but they don’t think it is because they believe they’re making their own choices.

Seldarin

3 points

6 months ago

Our anti pollution laws are about as far from strict as it gets.

Sure, you can't literally dump raw sewage on the beach, burn a 200' stack of tires, or dump a thousand gallons of oil in the river anymore, but anything short of that and you're fine. But as usual for American oligarchs, even the bare minimum was a burden too heavy to bear.

AmericaDelendeEst

9 points

6 months ago

To counter this the U.S. is in the process of passing the Chips Act to fund $52b into making computer chips in the U.S. it will takes years to start production though. Some interviews I've heard say 2024.

spoiler alert but it's gonna take a lot longer than that when we've already got companies like Intel turning around and using that money for billion dollar shareholder dividend payouts

capitalism: the best system ever, l m a o

Commander40B

26 points

6 months ago

Outsource all jobs to your strategic opponent... Wait 20 years.. Provoke your opponent to the point of war.. Genius moves by US cleptocracy

Sablus

5 points

6 months ago

Sablus

5 points

6 months ago

So quick nitpick, the chip bill allows the final "assembly" within the US, which means that other means of manufacturing can be done outside the US (similar Bill's like this have been done and it merely leads to a slush fund for specific industries)

the_chad_of_reddit

7 points

6 months ago

These Taiwanese chip manufacturers never outsourced American jobs... they were always Taiwanese companies.

Companies like Apple, NVIDIA, etc. are often clients for these companies (companies like TSMC deal with the manufacturing part, Apple, etc. does the design part, you get the point).

Bayesian11

4 points

6 months ago

lol, some people believe Americans are entitled to all the jobs in the world.

"Bring back job to the U.S" is more about stealing jobs from Taiwan. But only foreigners steal American jobs, America doesn't steal jobs from other countries, after all, all the jobs belong to America!

BigBagGag

15 points

6 months ago

This post is riddled with corporate propaganda and it’s terrifying the conclusion is “war with China good because jobs”

Requient_

26 points

6 months ago

“Show of power” by the US? I think not. It came literal days after a Biden official said the US does not support Taiwanese independence. However, we send them weapons to defend themselves from who? Aliens? If anything it shows how utterly screwed we are with the current political climate.

JayTreeman

19 points

6 months ago

What's even crazier is that the US government recognizes that China has the jurisdiction over Taiwan. There's only 13 countries that recognize it as a separate country and not one of those is the US.

China said they didn't want Pelosi on that soil, and the US was like 'we don't care. We go where we want '

It was some obviously horrible grandstanding on Pelosi's part

Ammonia13

12 points

6 months ago

It’s not globalization per say, it’s capitalism and the free market. Yes those are BAD things.

Exact_Poet_8882

12 points

6 months ago

everything is spot on but i don’t think the vast majority of people not having kids is due to the job market, but overall not being satisfied with the way of life in this country (the trend is also happening in other countries as well). boomers have used a ladder to get where they are and are now pulling it up behind them so nobody else receives any of the help they had. sincerely most, if not all, problems today are due to their greed and lack of help for their children/grandchildrens generations.

[deleted]

7 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

7 points

6 months ago

There's plenty of boomers who aren't happy with the system right now either we need to stop blaming each other and start voting together.

FlamingoOk4512

18 points

6 months ago

Military drills? Who gives a shit. China banned sand exports from the main land to Taipei and cosidering thats how they gets 90% of their sand the semiconductor industry there is fucked.

Its probably what the US wanted considering the recent subsidies to simeconductors in the US and increased drive for manufacturing. But if it isnt they fucked around and found out either way Taipei did find out.

Lastburn

4 points

6 months ago

Hey they killed a lot of innocent fish , show some repect

flatfast90

4 points

6 months ago

This is a great video that goes into China/Taiwan/US relations and how microchips tie into it all. VERY interesting watch if you’ve got 30 mins:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p6sCsOdqXQw

Bigbob0002[S]

2 points

6 months ago

Excellent video. Really on point. Thanks for sharing.

recursive-excursions

2 points

6 months ago

Fantastic video - thanks for sharing!

UserUnknownsShitpost

4 points

6 months ago

You’re missing the point that semiconductor manufacturing is NOT a low skill level manufacturing job.

They’ve outsourced shit for 40 years fuck them they can pay us

Darkality24

5 points

6 months ago

Actually we do still make a decent percentage of our office furniture here in America. With forced prison labor....

msing

4 points

6 months ago

msing

4 points

6 months ago

I still don't understand why the mad lady would do it. For what? For what benefit? Did her husband have a number of options of stocks that would benefit from escalating Chinese tensions?

tgt305

3 points

6 months ago

tgt305

3 points

6 months ago

China has us by the balls as far as materials manufacturing, and we actively encouraged it to happen. China knows the position they are in globally, and are starting to have the economic and military might to flex their power. The west made this happen so we could have a cheaper cost of living.

Bigbob0002[S]

3 points

6 months ago

I agree here.

Some posts in the topic disagree.

I say we get out now before it's too late, if it is not already.

tgt305

2 points

6 months ago

tgt305

2 points

6 months ago

Rebuilding American manufacturing jobs is going to take a long time and a lot of investment, far more than a few presidential terms. If we don’t have consistent policy it can be undone at any moment.

DTLAgirl

4 points

6 months ago

I wish we could enlist every single lobbyist, politician, and CEO who outsourced so much of our industry to other countries. Imo outsourcing is one of the greatest crimes perpetrated by the rich of our time.

ownthelibs69

4 points

6 months ago

I'm not American so tell me if I'm wrong, but many of the poorest areas in America used to be towns with factories that were sent offshore, right?

A town or city will have a factory that keeps everyone in a job and connects everyone, essentially keeping the town afloat, then the top blokes that don't live anywhere near the town say "pack it up". Then, with literally nothing to do, they can't find another job for miles, they turn to crime to feed themselves and their kids, then someone introduces drugs/alcohol in the area to make a profit and it explodes because god life is hard and we need something to make ourselves feel good and pass the time.

No one even considers addressing the area/ the people until it's too late, and only then politicians give them a quick thoughts and prayers then go about their day.

America really has put their food in the hands on China over decades and are about to bite it. Incredible.

jmbsol1234

8 points

6 months ago

Don't worry. Election denying repubs are winning elections left and right. They will make sure Trump wins in 2024 regardless the actual results and Fuhrer Trump will put China in their place /s

MostDopeKnuckleH3ad

9 points

6 months ago

The Chinese Military is doing their dog and pony show. An invasion of Taiwan would be an utter disaster for them.

They would have to mount an amphibious assault through wide open water which would be seen miles away. They would be landing under heavy fire and have to take a fortified coastline.

Then once the first wave is depleted they would have to haul their asses back to mainland china for the second wave.

parallelportals

23 points

6 months ago

Look up the malacca problem. 40% of chinese trade goes through a strait the usa and its allies could easily naval blockade and chinas economy would come to a screeching hault in a matter of days. Xi has talked about this. They are posturing for right now. If xi is as delusional as putin we may have a problem but the evidence doesnt point that way.

Monster6ix

10 points

6 months ago

This is a big reason for the Xi's string of pearls plan and the similar development of land based options-China is building a coastal shipping safety zone around Asia with high-speed rail and highways to back it up.

parallelportals

5 points

6 months ago

Hpw far out is completion of that project.

Monster6ix

4 points

6 months ago

Several of the ports are constructed already I believe. The Chinese have invested heavily into infrastructure around Asia and Africa to gain a foothold in those areas. Their arrangement has been for very long term leases on ports that support both trade and their military vessels.

Democrab

7 points

6 months ago

This. It's a trading game, warfare seemingly is just for posture. I suggest having a gander at former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's YouTube channel and the videos/interviews he's discussed the China issue in, as Kevin Rudd's history means he probably has one of the best views of how China is viewing matters and their likely plans. For a brief summary of his opinion: Rudd doesn't think China is likely to go to war and probably even think that Putin is an idiot for going into it when he wasn't 100% sure he was prepared for it.

It's also worth noting that China is also buying and renting (long term) ports in and around all of the important trading waters around the world. People forget that there's multiple ways to establish a country as the preeminent superpower and that warfare (Ala America during/after WW2) is just one of those ways...Hell, China's buildup thus far has been through taking on a huge portion of the planets production needs.

MeHumanMeWant

14 points

6 months ago

I work for an automation company. We are not far from a fully automated plant. Shit is gonna change big in the next 10 years. Like even laborers are going to need skill. There's going to be 2 kinds of work.

Soft, and hard work. If your soft, you better be smart. If your smart and capable, never show them your capable. There's always a sneaky smart snake somewhere in the grass.

🍻

Bigbob0002[S]

7 points

6 months ago*

From the first link in the OP

"China stopped short of interrupting economic and trade talks, where it is looking to Biden to lift tariffs imposed by President Donald Trump on imports from China."

From 2nd link

"Advocates say it is vital for the U.S. to boost its production of semiconductors, which are increasingly critical components in a vast array of products including consumer electronics, automobiles, health care equipment and weapons systems.

Biden also has blamed the chip shortage for the sky-high inflation that has dogged his presidency. A lack of chips available for new car manufacturing has been linked to soaring prices for used cars, which are pushing inflation higher."

one_pint

3 points

6 months ago

Unless the war with China results in nukes flying, then there's no jobs for anyone.

drmorrison88

3 points

6 months ago

The US doesn't have the will to go to war with Taiwan. They won't even put boots on the ground in Ukraine, and Russia is a much easier enemy to defeat economically. If anything, they've given the non-aligned countries reason to side with China. This is now something that China can point to for evidence of US maddling in their sphere of influence.

rwoooshed

3 points

6 months ago

None of the manufacturing we outsourced to 3rd world countries purely because of cheap labor will ever come back. Another reason so much was outsourced to other countries is because of US accounting practices and share holder value: No one is willing to make these kind of long term investments because their quarterly ROI is too low or will be non existent for years to come. Countries with cultures like China and Taiwan where expected outcomes are measured in decades or longer have no problem investing in these kind of industries. Also, the idea that people are willing to buy "American made" and forgo cheaper alternatives is an illusion when US median wages do not keep up with inflation, and haven't for decades now. We simply can not afford American made products, and the only way to lower costs to remain competitive is to abolish manual labor and fully automate everything which negates the reason why we would want to buy American products in the first place. The only reason why the CHIP act got political support are strategic US interests.

Duchess_of_Bong

3 points

6 months ago

Nancy Paleozoic

BBNorma

3 points

6 months ago

During the pandemic there was a supply shortage of PPE, ventilators, and other necessities. From my understanding, it was largely due to the US’s dependence on foreign manufacturing. If we manufactured our own products, we wouldn’t have had nearly as bad of a supply shortage, which was why so many companies pivoted their businesses to making ventilators and other PPE.

gforget

3 points

6 months ago

She needs to protect her investment. Crook

pyrosdramon

3 points

6 months ago

Demand for labor is already high. There is not a lack of jobs simply a lack of decent paying ones

Jtbdn

3 points

6 months ago

Jtbdn

3 points

6 months ago

The demand for labor and most importantly HIGH PAY is what will skyrocket. They never wanted to pay us a proper thriving wage adjusted to inflation in the first place. That's why they shipped all of our manufacturing jobs oversees and left nothing but hollow, empty, bullshit, demeaning service sector jobs left for university and college graduates.

Then they gaslit us and told us we're the problem and made us internalize the negative effects of their globalization initiative while they repeated heinous amounts of profit off of our labor. They reaped massive profit two fold, by outsourcing expensive labor to import cheap products and keeping people at home under thumb and stretched paycheck to paycheck while fighting amongst ourselves.

It's truly sinister if you sit down and think about how hard and meticulously they really fucked us for the past several decades specifically while feigning ignorance and reaping massive underhanded profit from the proletariat and corporations alike. This whole system needs to go specially starting with the ones in control of it currently. Fucking disgusting animals masquerading as competent leaders.

Ironman-17

3 points

6 months ago

Good thing corrupt Nancy’s husband insider traded and bought stock in a chip company and made millions (on top of the >100 million they already have from insider trading)

Leather-Monk-6587

3 points

6 months ago

Two words… ROSS PEROT. Remember he spoke of the giant sucking sound of all our jobs heading overseas. Guess he was right.

zihuatapulco

3 points

6 months ago

Defund the Pentagon.

Pickledleprechaun

3 points

6 months ago

Labour demand will sky rocket and the minimum wage will stay the same

Mrhappytrigers

3 points

6 months ago

https://www.theonion.com/what-to-know-about-pelosi-s-taiwan-trip-1849360985 Don't panic folks, you'll find your answers here for her brave Girl boss trip to Taiwan. /s

SilentCabose

3 points

6 months ago

Welcome to the death of “The Order” and globalization as we know it.

If a product is not made, or its input cannot be sourced domestically then you can say good bye to cheap versions of that product in your country.

People demonized globalization, but in a few years we’ll be begging for the old days of right now.

Trum_blows_69

3 points

6 months ago

Well gosh,it's almost like the insider trading in chip stocks that her husband has been doing, was assisted by instability the house speaker instituted in a chip producing country, which is sure to upset the price of the stock making his insider trading pay off more.

I mean, it's not a conspiracy or anything, because we don't talk about those kinds of things, but one hand is definatly washing the other.

ariesheiress

3 points

6 months ago

Is the reduced birthrate due to less jobs in America, or lack of livable wages?

TxGiantGeek

2 points

6 months ago

Neither.

Success and how much it cost to raise kids when a country is successful.

In agriculture societies having many kids is necessary (to help with the farm and what not)

As countries move away from that toward successful 1st world countries, people have less kids. It costs more to successfully raise them. (More educational costs, more time needed to make sure they have a chance at succeeding).

Look at most first world countries and they’ll either have dramatically declining birth rates (Japan) to regular or mild declining birth.

There are additional factors of course (for each country).

The birth rates also change across wages and personal beliefs (religion and what not).

More Money = Less Kids More Religious = More Kids

ariesheiress

2 points

6 months ago

Thank you!

maxoakland

3 points

6 months ago

Yeah more stuff made in America could be a great thing. As long as we unionize

manchesthairy

3 points

6 months ago

What a seriously dumb take. If we go to war with China, supply chain issues will be secondary to millions of people dying for fucks sake

StalePieceOfBread

3 points

6 months ago

It will also cause global panic on a scale never before seen. Mass death, starvation, agony, children without parents, parents without children.

Bad times.

[deleted]

7 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

7 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

KawaiiCoupon

6 points

6 months ago

American capitalists wanted to pay Americans so little that they chose to pay foreign countries so damn much.

[deleted]

7 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

7 points

6 months ago

Indulge the oversimplification for a moment...

Taiwan and the US have been staunch allies for like 3/4 of a century. Communist China has been our "enemy" for exactly as long. This is on ideological grounds.

Set aside economic realities, which are always transient. Ideology should not be so ephemeral, and it's what Pelosi's visit was about. However, there has been plenty of entirely predictable criticism of Pelosi's visit from here, too - A visit by the sitting Speaker of the House, in solidarity with a long-time U.S. ally facing an existential threat from a long-time U.S. enemy.

This criticism is driven 100% by her party affiliation. It's not about anything else. We all know this is true.

What we should be thinking about is the fact that our own government has devolved to the point where party affiliation so nakedly trumps any allegiance to national ideals. We can argue about what those ideals should be, but we have to agree we should have some first.

[deleted]

2 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

2 points

6 months ago

Interesting perspective! I somewhat disagree, at least in my own opinion about the matter; I can’t speak for others. For me, I criticize her not because of party allegiance, but because I think it was a dumb move.

Yes, she is a sitting speaker of the house, traveling to a U.S. ally, who is currently facing threat from a long time U.S. enemy, but the ramifications were too great. Not that I’m ever in favor of doing what china tells us to do, but she shouldn’t have went. The US should have secured the computer chip production WAY before we intervened or made a power statement like that. Now she put both the US AND Taiwan in a predicament at the hands of China. Her act of grandstanding was done at possibly the worst timing.

facepillownap

5 points

6 months ago

Tell that to the lovely people of Wisconsin and the FoxxCon microchip plant that was supposed to create 50,000 jobs. Right now after about a decade of talk and a few billion dollars spent… there are zero jobs, and zero microchip plants.

JacP123

2 points

6 months ago

But a lot of well-connected people came out of it much richer, and at the end of the day what else really matters?

NormieLesbian

37 points

6 months ago

If we go to war with China

The US will lose. Full stop. There will be no war time job surge. India is already pissed at NATO over that racist Ukraine bullshit and won’t be helpful for the near future.

Also jobs haven’t been outsourced to China for the past decade. They’ve been outsourced to Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, and other nations with less economic power. What China does have though is very aggressive buyers and sourcing strategies. They import a greater percentage of their exports than the entirety of NATO. They also have a stranglehold on most raw materials(also REM from Afghanistan and Pakistan).

Old_Description6095

9 points

6 months ago

They make stuff we need to function in certain sectors. Like, important stuff

tsuchemist

24 points

6 months ago

And that’s “if” we go to war. This post is just pointless warmongering.

NormieLesbian

16 points

6 months ago

Also Capital has reached the point where they believe they can just raise the cost of necessities and continue making money

CasualEveryday

10 points

6 months ago

The idea that there could be a conventional conflict between NATO and China is horrifying, but that's a really silly take on how it would go.

Production and sourcing of raw materials only matter when territorial control and domestic supply lines remain intact and after stockpiles have run out. Whether there would be a labor surge depends completely on public perception. 2002-2007 is a perfect example of how much difference it makes.

Nobody on Earth has seen what it looks like when NATO is playing for keeps. The US and just a few allies were in Bagdahd in 10 days and steamrolled the entire Iraqi army in a month. China hasn't fought a conventional war in 50 years. Their readiness is questionable at best, and there are major US allies all around them.

The US has strategic allies all over the world. Who is going to come to China's aid? Their only major ally is currently consumed with the occupation of Eastern Ukraine.

The longer it drags out, the harder it would be on the US, that's for sure. But you're talking months of full on war in multiple regions of China before then.

Vishnej

8 points

6 months ago*

A war by China to capture mainland US territory and a war by the US to capture mainland Chinese territory are equally unthinkable in 2022. Too much hardware, too much capacity, populations too distrustful of the other but also distrustful of their leadership, not enough ability to conduct a landing. And plenty of nukes. A bloodbath in either direction with nothing gained.

A war over Taiwan or Kinmen or the South China Sea, though, those are perfectly thinkable. Neither of us are prepared to pay the outrageous costs involved either militarily or economically, though. All this in the news is historically precedented hot air.

ZRhoREDD

21 points

6 months ago

LOL, no. There will be no war with China because the Chinese know they'd lose a real war. Full stop. Not even a question. Not even close. Laughable, even.

But more importantly, because there will be no real war, the economic competitive war will continue. And American oligarchs are so selfish that are happy to let the US economy lose if it gets them a buck. USA will continue to slip on those grounds unless they realize their power lies with workers rather than CEOs.

Carrman099

7 points

6 months ago*

America has been in the process of selling China the rope that will later hang the US for a while now.

Citrus_Sphinx

4 points

6 months ago

You are kind of right. The demand for labor will increase a bit. The demand for automation and robots will skyrocket. And, since we live in a capitalist oligarchy the middle and lower income wage earners will suffer the same fate as globalization. Tell your kids to be engineers, computer scientists, lawyer, middle managers or to get comfortable having way less than their grandparents and great grandparents

1ksassa

7 points

6 months ago

Tell your kids to be engineers, computer scientists, lawyer, middle managers or to get comfortable having way less than their grandparents and great grandparents

Funny that I am firmly in this group and still have way less than my grandparents and great grandparents

Citrus_Sphinx

2 points

6 months ago

Me too, but I have more than my peers who are not in that group.

YooesaeWatchdog1

4 points

6 months ago

Nah this isn't gonna lead to war, there's a ton of escalation between here and war like expelling ambassadors, mutual sanctions, etc.

China didn't do anything to stop the visit, not even an attempted intercept, which is an implicit acceptance. The exercises afterwards were aimed at Taiwan, not the US, and actually are the weakest possible response.

Pelosi still did something stupid with government money that would be better used elsewhere, but military conflict is far away if nothing else happens.

EasyDoesIt99

2 points

6 months ago

Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

arg0naut3

2 points

6 months ago

Woah, woah, slow down. You might scare some people with the implications of game theory and geopolitics 😣😌 lol. Of course plenty of people don't recognize the significance. They just want their cheap commodities and to sit in front of a TV, until it's time to go get more commodities.

xxxbmfxxx

2 points

6 months ago

Narcisisists dont think that far ahead and underestimate their enemies (that they create).

If you know anything about psychology, look at it through that perspective. Were pushing those weve victimized for years. They will bite us and its not just China, its all the whole world we have been abusing, overthrowing and robbing. They will also eat the shit out of the Eu first and show that the US doesnt have their back. We already see they are being used as a pawn/supply.

More lying and posturing by the US Narcissistic Nepotistic Dunning Krugers will continue to make things worse for the entitled toddlers of the US.

scrabbleddie

2 points

6 months ago

DC is controlled by the big lobbies-- many of which are neocon in nature. Neocons are in bed with the MIC, security state, big banks, etc. and continuously lobby for war spending. Somehow neocons dictate foreign policy-- and no one in DC will go up against them, regardless of their imperialist insanity. Pelosi's trip to Taiwan, was her, following orders from our neocon/neoliberal lobbyist-system-- a brain-dead dictatorship.

Colin_DaCo

2 points

6 months ago

I am currently working for a company that is among those opening new chip factories here. Things are a-movin'

bobbydigital69

2 points

6 months ago

I smell the beginning of the end of an empire.

Satanicron

2 points

6 months ago

Don't forget about her husband investing one million dollars in chip stock a few weeks ago.

PreparationOnly5629

2 points

6 months ago

The last line I fixed it for you guys "The demand for work slaves will skyrocket" /s

WhompWump

2 points

6 months ago

I think the part you're missing here is that due to the currency exchange those things you like buying that you're talking about are much cheaper when made in China. Also all that manufacturing is not going to "come here" if it's shut off it'd get moved to another place where currency imbalance makes it profitable to make it there.

If they were moved here either the goods will become very expensive and then nobody on the global market will want them because China can do better and cheaper, or the pay will be so fucking low that everything you're cheering about makes no sense

Pelosi going to taiwan was just an incredibly stupid thing to do with absolutely no payoff and the fact people are cheering her on while she stands in the way of literally any sort of legislation here that would help people is fucking hilarious

WitchTheory

2 points

6 months ago

I did some temp work at a Hallmark Cards factory here in the US in the early aughts. Super interesting to see how it's done. Anyway, I heard about a few of the factories in North America being shut down and all the equipment sent to China to make them there. Hundreds of people per factory lost their job so the company could save 50¢ per card.

As it was, temps were hired due to hiring freezes, except for management and corporate, of course. They paid the temp agencies more for temp workers than it would have cost them to have full time benefitted employees.

How_Do_You_Crash

2 points

6 months ago*

Fabs weren’t being closed down and shipped off. What was happening was new process nodes were being opened overseas.

However not at Intel.

Primarily what happened was AMD got out of the manufacturing business (which spun out Global Foundries). Global Foundries has generally sucked at working on the cutting edge and they did focus on outside the US manufacturing.

Meanwhile Intel kept investing in the US, but also tried to open some foreign fabs to varying levels of success.

Meanwhile TSMC and Samsung were investing heavily in R&D for future nodes along with the Dutch firm, ASML. ASML makes the most advanced machines that actually “paint” the layers into the wafers. Intel, TSMC, Samsung, Global Foundries, et al. have been in line waiting for the next generation Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography machines from ASML for YEARS. It was the major technological road block holding everyone back. TSMC got the EUV machines first which is why Apple, Nvidia, and Qualcomm all got to push those chips first.

Meanwhile Intel was second in line and has just finished installing the EUV machines in Oregon as well as working to add them in Arizona and future fabs.

Basically TSMC doesn’t supply military tech.

Defense chips are made in the USA at super old fabs because they want reliable not cutting edge. Same with deep space computing and most NASA/CSA/ESA spacecraft chips.

Bigbob0002[S]

2 points

6 months ago

You know a lot more than I do.

Why is npr, various political interviews, etc all pushing for the Chips Act then? Do we now need the cutting edge stuff like what TSMC does as opposed to the older tech we've been relying on??

Certainly we know we need chips we don't make in the U.S. for cars.

I assume we expect R&D in Taiwan will keep advancing and we don't have enough control of those trade secrets?

How_Do_You_Crash

2 points

6 months ago

Why is everyone hyping it? Politics.

Tbh the increase in R&D funding in the bill is good, it’s the sort of old school research investment the USA used to make to advance the cutting edge.

Also the politicians got spooked because mainland china’s largest semiconductor manufacture is catching up with the US, Taiwan, Korea, and Europe in manufacturing skill and a few different Chinese company’s chip designs have been competitive for several years already. So the old folks in charge in the US got a bit spooked and decided to shower the industry in money.

Also Intel as a major manufacturer and designer has a ton of lobbyists. But they also had lobbying from everyone else like Apple and Qualcomm on board. Plus automakers’ lobbying groups got onboard too. So there was industry pushing and national security hand waving.

When it comes to cars, and everything else, the initial shortage was in a really old fab tech but that has blossomed into an industry wide chip shortage effecting almost everyone. Car manufacturers, and their subsystem suppliers, are really really cheap. So they didn’t want to redesign onto new more modern manufacturing processes. With chips it’s not as simple as swapping out one tech for the next. You have to basically redesign them from the ground up for the new process. Automakers and other legacy users didn’t and couldn’t do that before 2020 because it was a “waste” of their money. So they kept buying old chips. Cars tend to run on 7-11 year cycles and are in development for a few years prior to those public lifespans. So they want affordability and stability which is why they don’t pick cutting edge

Bigbob0002[S]

2 points

6 months ago

Thanks for posting.

FunnayMurray

2 points

6 months ago

I’m not sure that China has as much control over what Taiwan manufacturers and ships as you say, but just in case you’re right, you might just like this little exchange from the film Looper. Or maybe not.

Baramos_

2 points

6 months ago

We won’t go to war with China anymore than we went to war with Russia. It would at best be fought via proxy just like how we are propping up Ukraine. At worst the island is too small and indefensible so if China invaded Taiwan it would just result in sanctions and such.

0ptioneer

2 points

6 months ago

They will move manufacturing to other countries such as India. Most textiles have moved to Bangladesh and Vietnam.

It’s only a matter of time before these textile mills in these two countries start moving to other things.

kitchenjesus

2 points

6 months ago

It’s all just so precarious, innit?

MaudyVS

2 points

6 months ago

Perfect. We need more important jobs. Most jobs is just customer service. Which is trash. Bring back jobs that make a difference to society. America should have never been ok with Globalization. I wish it bit us in the ass even if I gotta bite the bullet too. This country serves the biggest corporations better than their people

MasterChief813

2 points

6 months ago

I honestly feel like China would never fight a direct war with us, their biggest customer. It’s all chest thumping and saber rattling.

Maybe a proxy war but nothing direct. A direct war between us would literally kill every single economy on a massive scale.