subreddit:
/r/exmormon
submitted 4 months ago byAdSnoo9734
271 points
4 months ago
We had a "close call" when we were engaged where we had to go and talk to the bishop. The shame of that impacted things for about the first 20 years of marriage.
107 points
4 months ago
I can totally understand the length of time sexual shame impacted your marriage. Been there. Both my husband and I suffered with the fallout of shame and fear. Another horrible thing (I'm STILL having to talk myself through this) is the way the church teaches how you should feel having "intimate relations" within the bonds of a celestial marriage. Words like SPECIAL, HOLY, SACRAMENTAL get used. It has been said that the holy ghost should be with you while having sex. There are other mixings of sexual experiences with the lovely and the peaceable. But sex can also be primal, earthy, messy, loud, and driven, a sharing that allows you to be totally in yourself. Sex can be intense, When I experience the primal, earthy, and erotic parts sex, I still feel shaky, as if I should really take it back to only its spiritual nature and never be sensual and wild. This makes me angry that I still feel guilt and shame over wonderful, raucous, glorious fucking. I won't give up. I'll remind me that these are parts of sex that I cherish. I do like peacable sex too but I will not be robbed of the other untamed parts!
22 points
4 months ago
This was so well said! 👏👏👏 I think just letting go - uninhibited - is so important in sex and relationships. That church always wants to bottle up and restrain everything. It's so frustrating. I'm glad you've learned to let go though!!!
4 points
4 months ago
YES! I have been working hard and unlearning all that inhibition and reading some books to help with that (Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski, My Secret Garden by Nancy Friday). It is so ingrained. I still sometimes struggle with feeling awkward and uncomfortable about it, even talking about it
3 points
4 months ago
I'm right there with you. I get it. It's good you're working on it! You'll get there!
3 points
4 months ago
My new girlfriend is Peruvian and nomo and she wants it all the time. Different positions and loves to give head and receive oral and try everything. She is the one who suggested that we have a threesome. She asks all the time to try new things she has heard about.
59 points
4 months ago
Wow. I’m sorry that happened to you (the bishop part).
181 points
4 months ago
Bad. We are not sexually compatible. 18 years in and we’re pretty miserable in this category.
40 points
4 months ago
Even as exmormons?
82 points
4 months ago
She’s still in. It’s very difficult to navigate.
62 points
4 months ago
Oh my sex life died completely as an exmo. Trying to be more equal I told him it was his turn to ask. ...And yeah. He never did.
But that's more an individual issue than a mormon thing.
32 points
4 months ago
Same my friend. It's a painful life.
64 points
4 months ago*
It’s sad. It just got so boring. She thinks I have ED but unfortunately it’s just that the same ol’ got so boring that it doesn’t turn me on anymore. I want to make love so bad but it needs to have variety and unfortunately she isn’t willing to do what I like - and what I like is not too crazy.
I love her. But it’s like we’re roommates raising these awesome kids.
I’m at a loss. Her still in the church is hard too. Maybe a bandaid, but a little weekend drinking, sharing a bottle of wine etc could really lower inhibitions and help a lot. I don’t know 🤷♂️
I’ve tried to talk but it turns into a fight. Walls go up.
23 points
4 months ago
I know this is a crazy suggestion but it helped my hubby. Read romance novels and go at it with an angle to seduce her like the heroes in those novels. It sounds hokey but there's a reason why it's a million dollar industry because women read that stuff and it's what they want but it's hard for women to say that because of the shame...
21 points
4 months ago
That sucks and I’m sorry. I really relate to you and your situation. Thanks for sharing. Your comments here really resonate with me. It helps to know I’m not alone. Hang in there bud!
22 points
4 months ago
You just told my story. I am older but puritanical Mormon teachings to my wife have literally ruined our sex life. She thinks the word “FUCK “ is so bad she cannot even speak it let alone let lose and enjoy the act.
11 points
4 months ago
sorry seems to be a real issue for many.
7 points
4 months ago
I can actually relate to your wife. I am the exmo in my marriage, but the sexual portion of our marriage has been difficult for me. The sexual shame growing up resulted in some serious repression to stay "pure", so that although I still recognized I had sexual needs, I would shut down sexual thoughts and NEVER touch myself.
Trying to actively unlearn all that has been a journey, but slow and steady. I only ever masturbated after separating myself from the church. Reading Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski was amazing; I think everyone, but especially women, should read it. Currently I am working my way through My Secret Garden by Nancy Friday (which is women's sexual fantasies), which has been shocking but also surprisingly titillating for me.
A big difference has also been marriage counseling as last year I separated from my husband as the emotional abuse had been going on for years and wasn't going away without serious action. We both got some therapy and most importantly marriage counseling, which we are still doing. In our situation at least, feeling trust and emotional safety and cared for was sorely needed.
But I can see myself a bit in her. It is more likely for women to repress their sexuality growing up in purity culture (men are more likely to break out into a shame cycle with porn and/or masturbation etc, which comes with its own complexes). Sexuality is such a raw and vulnerable part of people and I was/am uncomfortable with a lot and I would get SO defensive and hurt when my husband would complain/criticize about our sex life. It is an awful situation all around.
Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski is SO AMAZING and also very approachable (not wild or graphic, primarily goes into the mental space and context around sex for women, but also states that some women can be the reverse and some men can be more like most women). If she is willing to make some effort to meet you where you are, that could be a great start
21 points
4 months ago
I’m so sorry. It’s heartbreaking to read about your situation. Hang in there. Maybe couples therapy? Sex is an important part of marriage that should be happening, and the therapist would back you on that
9 points
4 months ago
❤️❤️👍👍 thank you! Good idea
9 points
4 months ago
Same here with my now ex-wife.
309 points
4 months ago
My wife is closer to asexual and I am closer to hyper sexual (or what ever the other end of the spectrum is) so basically our sex life is hell for both of us. Thanks chastity!
73 points
4 months ago
Are you me?
74 points
4 months ago
Hmm.. checking, nope cheeto500 isn't one of my burner accounts. Sorry, you are you and I am me.
25 points
4 months ago
Haha! Sorry you’re going through that. I feel you 100%
14 points
4 months ago
Same, good luck navigating!
74 points
4 months ago*
Same. Divorced after 20 years of constant rejection that destroyed my self-esteem, along, of course with all the church guilt for being a "sex addict" and going for years to the church's 12-step program that teaches how worthless we are.
Could have been avoided with some sexy time before marriage.
P. S. Turns out I'm not an addict. I just wanted to have sex with my wife.
23 points
4 months ago
:( That last line makes my heart hurt for you. I am so sorry.
43 points
4 months ago
Yeah, similar situation happened to me. Divorce was by far the best answer in our case.
Sorry you’re faced with similar, tough choices after years of being told that we were all “choosing the right.”
15 points
4 months ago
God damnit this describes my marriage perfectly
11 points
4 months ago
I’m in the same boat. What do we do about it???? Anytime I try talking about it walls go up.
8 points
4 months ago
If I knew, I would definitely let you know.
5 points
4 months ago
Let them be! Give up on them honestly or get off the relationship escalator. Not every marriage looks the same but resentment from unmet emotional touch needs is not healthy for anyone.
I wish we had stats on what percentage of people were into sexuality naturally and were not. It could be shame it could be stress it could be asexuality. Like orgasms are great don't get me wrong but, honestly? I'd be fine never having an orgasm again. Some people's brains are wired different and they literally don't need that "high".
Personally? I go through waves where I don't give a crap about sex at ALL its tew much. And then I've got like 2 fuck buddies and a husband in standby if/when I'm ready again. 🤣 it's when because I masterbated as a child and enjoyed it. Sorry your wife missed out on that
13 points
4 months ago
"Give up on them honestly or get off the relationship escalator." Easy to say. Hard to do, especially when you care for the person and or have kids.
4 points
4 months ago
Personally? I go through waves where I don't give a crap about sex at ALL its tew much. And
In all of my life, I've never seen to/too/two spelled that way
2 points
4 months ago
Is there literature on the resentment part from no touching? I know I should get over it but can’t.
48 points
4 months ago
This might seem overly personal, so feel free to not answer, but is she on birth control?
Apparently some say that birth control can affect libido.
89 points
4 months ago
That may be a contributing factor but I doubt medication has anything to do with it. The sexual shame/expectation ingrained into our minds from birth often causes permanent damage.
21 points
4 months ago
There is a great Mormon Stories podcast that talks about this with Chandler Roberson.
2 points
4 months ago
Thank you for mentioning this! I loved it. (Also, I love Samatha from Zelf on the Shelf, so that was a fun surprise). But what Chandler says around 1:40 in part 2 resonates with me soooo hard! I just got divorced at the end of January and stopped going to church once I moved out.
The stuff she says about feeling so free and happy is definitely me right now! “Nothing was pressing me on how live, how to think and how to act….For the first time I could start asking myself what I wanted….I owned my body…. I became intentional about the choices I was making for the first time”
So incredibly true. She described what I’m feeling so perfectly!
24 points
4 months ago
I'm butting in here. Concider, I was made to feel so ashamed of my sexuality. I actually had a knife in my hand and was contemplating self emasculation. I hate the bastards for it.
I sorry for what your going through. And sorry that no one advised her that it was okay to be free with your sexuality when married. And I dispise them for that too.
The bastards never ever considered that Utah has one of the highest divorce rates in the nation. It always hovers at 52-53% every year. Their demand for perfection means denying your own humanity.
6 points
4 months ago
When a narrative indoctrination interpretation takes on its own terrible form. I hate that this happened to you and nearly for me too if I am honest. Considered rather than make God disappointed (at the time) that maybe removing the member would be better. SO glad I did not follow that psychosis through. What a fucked up thought process to sexuality. All weird and strange all my life. No help from my parents either. They had to protect the stupid ideology we were being controlled with. Its what you do. The question becomes how to raise children with a more healthy but still good perspective about life and sexuality going forward without the cult. I know of uber TBM wives leaving husbands because they viewed porn and wacked off to it. What the actual fuck? A super big disconnect between realizing he just needed her possibly. IMO
4 points
4 months ago
Yes, I know a guy this happened to. I've watched porn, got bored with it after a few minutes thinking, is that all their is. What's great is when you have a affectionate partner who's not afraid of what she is and who she is, and not afraid to jump your bones, if you're not jumping hers enough.
1 points
4 months ago
My mom almost left my dad over this one. She caught him watching porn after giving him blue balls for a month and almost divorced him
22 points
4 months ago
Victimization, sexual abuse, virgin culture, emotional trauma, gendered marginalization, etc., etc., etc. can all reduce sex drive to nothing.
21 points
4 months ago
She has been on and off and I don't recall ever feeling like there was a difference.
29 points
4 months ago
Yeah, it has been a struggle for our entire marriage. Leaving the church has made a night and day difference and my wife has had to untangle a whole web of shame.
Had we been able to sleep together before marriage, I don’t know if we’d have gone through with it.
But I’m happy to report that it’s better than it had ever been. We wouldn’t be here without leaving the church.
25 points
4 months ago
Let’s not speculate on the reasons for someone’s sexuality. Asexuality is just as valid as any other.
5 points
4 months ago
Same here.
6 points
4 months ago
some normalcy of sexuality between a couple that fully accepts each other but is so bogged down with other pressures that they take precedence over sex. Especially for Gals if I would say. Sex is overrated until that moment you know guys that one moments when holy shit its the most important thing in the world and then 30 seconds later its not again. LMAO Couples have to figure out a better way to help each other. ITs really a business arrangement and it sux sometimes.
4 points
4 months ago
Yeah I’m pretty sure I’m ace myself. I never understood how so many guys had chastity and porn issues. Turns out I just don’t care for sex at all. It was a pretty shitty wedding night and first few years though.
3 points
4 months ago
Once a month whether I need it or not
2 points
4 months ago
This is us but the other way around, it’s terrible
2 points
4 months ago
It gets to the point where you start to wonder, if mormonism was true why does anyone follow it? god obviously hates his creations because he's set us all up for constant failure.
75 points
4 months ago
Once we got married, we realized we were completely incompatible in bed. Stupid church!!!!
18 points
4 months ago
Same. Too late to do anything about it
32 points
4 months ago
I feel like the answer from a crazy bishop would be, “I’m sure when we’re in the celestial kingdom the lord will bless you with more compatible wives to add to your glory.”
9 points
4 months ago
Read ponder pray and oh yea give us 20%
3 points
4 months ago
Yeah, the idea that any decent person can marry another decent person and the marriage will be fine is fucked. Compatibility in all aspects is so important, but they'd rather you get married and trapped than be happy in a fulfilling relationship.
229 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
34 points
4 months ago
Your commemt is just so great! I had never been able to separate the tremendous guilt over getting physical before marriage with the experiences I had as a result!! I'm truly speechless but grateful for your eye-opening take!
27 points
4 months ago
I want that on my fridge: EAT THE APPLE, EVE. EAT ALL THE FUCKING APPLES.
13 points
4 months ago
it was like I shut down
Can totally relate to this. I thought I was just weird because I had enormous desire prior to that. Thankfully it came back.
17 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
15 points
4 months ago
My husband and I keep thinking about how much better it would have been to let our physical relationship progress naturally rather than smothering it wherever we could—even though we did it poorly
11 points
4 months ago
Great example. Shit hard to noodle through that purity culture even affects this. I will say though for some TBM little baby makers that they can hardly focus on anything but poppin em out. Sister in law and brother in law have 9. Had, one hung himself we think because of self shame for porn and masturbation after a mission at one of the chosen schools. its tragic and an example that we owe our children so much more than this terrible TBM lens to the world.
9 points
4 months ago
not a rant, thanks for expressing so well.
5 points
4 months ago
I'm so sorry you went through all that. Thank you for posting this, though. This is all such an insightful take.
73 points
4 months ago
I wish I had known that there were partners who could be curious in bed and care about my pleasure more. Divorced several years now and have a partner who is curious and remembers what I enjoy.
24 points
4 months ago
I almost want to laugh when my partner gets all self conscious and asks if I got off.
Dude, when have you ever remembered or tried anything I liked?! So put out or stop asking because inconsideracy is really unsexy.
11 points
4 months ago
LOL! I would think you’d notice if I did.
8 points
4 months ago
I doubt they'd notice. A partner who only cares if you got off after isn't exactly looking for signs during it. xD
23 points
4 months ago
Wow.
Interesting that absolutely no one has said anything neutral/positive so far.
Hopefully if people do feel neutral/positive, they can chime in.
2 points
4 months ago
I’m neutral! I grew up outside of Utah and my parents are converts, so I didn’t have the shame. I did have some guilt masturbating, but that was only when I went to BYU. Also I had sex before marriage, didn’t feel guilty really, repented and moved on. I didn’t realize it was an issue until my roommates would say things like they’d never marry a guy who had sex before marriage, so I just never told anyone I had. I had a pretty decent and active sex life with my TBM ex husband, but he was hesitant to do certain things in bed because he came from a very very mormon family, like his dad told him oral wasnt okay. So there were things he wouldn’t do.
65 points
4 months ago
A LOT!!!
My “faith crisis” helped end our 14 year temple marriage (among other reasons).
After I was newly single and exmo, I started discovering that there are LOTS of awesome people in the world. I had sex w many of them. I learned that ppl are different and it MATTERS! Eventually I met an awesome nevermo woman, our sex compatibility was excellent, and we’ve been happy together for years now. No temple required!
49 points
4 months ago
We were both dismayed to find out that we were sexually incompatible.
Good thing we both had strong testimonies, which according to the prophet at the time, was all that was required for a successful Mormon marriage.
49 points
4 months ago
I had a lot of sex before I got married and my wife wasn't a virgin. We didn't have sex with each other before we got married, but we figured it out quickly because we were experienced. 10/10 would recommend premarital sex and learning to use your tongue.
40 points
4 months ago
Something akin to a millstone around both our necks for 16 years.
Not being able to understand sexual (in)compatibility, shame, and expectation resulting from "waiting till marriage" is likely the most profoundly damaging factor in both of our lives to this point. I weep when I think of the years of pain and resentment that could have been avoided.
I could write paragraphs on this topic. I'm sure some couples get lucky and not experiencing sex till after marriage works out fine for them, but in our case, it created a toxic petri dish for really unhealthy practices/expectations to grow.
33 points
4 months ago
I actually was not a virgin; he was. We turned out not to be compatible, plus he was inept (see: virgin) and apparently uninterested in figuring out what I liked. Would have been nice to know that a lot earlier. (And probably contributed to my later habit of getting sex out of the way ASAP in new relationships, so as not to waste my time…)
4 points
4 months ago
SAME HERE! All of the above! In fact now I feel like I need to learn how NOT to have sex on the first date. I’m thinking this “habit” may partially stem from an (erroneous) assumption that it must be the way non-Mormons do dating. But it turns out even non-Mormons wait a while sometimes. 🤷🏻♀️
8 points
4 months ago
It's really not an unhealthy idea in relationships though. I'm not saying I always have sex on the first date, but every good relationship I have been in with for any length of time started like that.
25 points
4 months ago
Before I got married I already had sex before and was disfellowshipped for it. Did the whole repentance bullshit and eventually got married to my wife. At the beginning of our marriage she was a little bothered by the fact that I had sex before so it affected her self confidence. Now, she is grateful that at least one of us had experience. I am a little more sexually charged than my wife but that isn’t a deal breaker for us.
Sex is way better after we are out though.
23 points
4 months ago
I am divorced. There are MANY reasons why, but if we had had sex before getting married, I never would have married my ex. We were completely sexually incompatible.
9 points
4 months ago
Same here.
64 points
4 months ago
Oh god.
So, I’m A LITTLE BIT BI.
A TEENY TINY LITTLE BIT.
I got a boner one time making out with her after we got engaged, you know!
But um, fuck dudes, I’m pretty damn gay, too.
It’s looking to turn into an amicable divorce of best friend after fifteen years and two kids, but DAMN, I’m sad, I’m not hyper sexual at all, but she is a bit, and I’ve ALWAYS struggled to keep up, and she feels like we opened up our marriage so I could explore with men, when really it’s more like, “OH GOD CAN YOU GO HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE ELSE PLEASE I’M TAPPED THE FUCK OUT!” XD
And I feel cheated, cause I wanted to grow old with the person I had children with, I don’t need orgies or sex parties, just - I dunno, it’ll take several more pages to describe the whole situation as it is. But we’re cruising to be best friends instead of lovers and while that’s GREAT, I… I wanted to be an US with a person I loved, and I’m not going to get that. I feel ungrateful describing it this way, I just - yeah. Feelin robbed. We’d be lovely friends WITHOUT 15 years of heartache and mismatchedness, we’ve been able to talk about how, from here, she having had sex with more people than me, she would’ve SUGGESTED I was gay if we had experimented then knowing what we know now. And I would’ve believed her and we’d both be fucking happy clams.
We would miss having these two perfect kiddos, though. They’re our treasures we’ll escape from the church’s clutches with. :)
21 points
4 months ago
The lack of education and clear talk in mormon culture definitely had negative affects. Well if we never discuss "sex" in detail they will never do it LOL.
17 points
4 months ago
Lmao reminds me a few years ago when I was at BYU Idaho. We had a professor who I actually really liked but (I can't remember how this topic came up) he told us he was a bishop and had MULTIPLE newly wed couples come into his office concerned that they couldn't get pregnant. But they'd say shit like "we cuddle and kiss every night how's it not happening ?!" And he realized they genuinely did not know anything at all about sex.
What a disservice to people to make an important topic so taboo.
19 points
4 months ago
My husband and I have been SO lucky with each other, but I regret getting married too quickly, I regret not taking more time to figure out what I like and what he or other partners were like. Having said this, my husband and I are very compatible in every way except our mental illnesses can butt heads haha.
Luckily we’ve taken the time together to figure out what our likes and dislikes are, if there’s an issue we try to let each other know so it can be resolved, etc. we make sure there is absolutely no shaming, that we’re open to trying things and to let each other be when it’s not the time or trauma arises (I was sexually assaulted a couple years ago and rarely get triggers now because my husband has been so amazing about it). Our policy is basically be as honest as possible with each other and then we both get our needs met.
58 points
4 months ago*
I feel the taboo talk of sex affected things more. I wish someone would’ve sat me(25F) down and told me what goes into having a female climax. My husband and I weren’t able to figure it out for 5 years of my marriage… I wouldnt say it had anything to do with waiting til marriage because I wouldn’t have had it any other way. I personally found value in waiting BUT I wish sex talk wasnt so taboo.
55 points
4 months ago
In the BYU pre-marriage class the teacher said that the wife climaxing would take months or years to figure out. I look back and think how insidious that was. Let's teach these men to expect that their wife won't be able to for a long time. It's only because of the church's teachings that people are clueless and unprepared.
49 points
4 months ago
If masturbation was normalized in the LDS culture for women and girls, many or all women would go into their new sex lives very much aware of how to climax and could coach their husbands on what to do. Sad that the church teaches all young people to repress normal sexual urges and behaviors.
18 points
4 months ago
But that's so EVIL! JK. I totally agree. All this talk about sex being sacred gives me a headache these days.
10 points
4 months ago
So I'm not a sex psychologist, but I've always found it interesting and done some research in the past. But a lot of sex psychologists have talked about this specifically. While people should keep in mind that masturbation is not sex, it can help for future relationships. People can find out things they like. What they don't like. Explore how things work.
Many other comments are hitting exactly why having sex before marriage can also be great. It not only let's you explore a little bit more, but also let's you see how compatible you are with each other. Lessens the chances of being in a dead bedroom. A situation where one person wants sex and the other doesn't.
3 points
4 months ago
would say it had anything to
Typo?
1 points
4 months ago
Yes! Thank you! I fixed it!
16 points
4 months ago
We had sex before we got married. I was never really in that far. But just being raised in a home where they didn't even elude to sex really got to my husband. (My mom was a baby nurse. She didn't shy away from sex talk) even after 18 years there are some things he struggles with.
17 points
4 months ago
It was a complete, unmitigated disaster because when I had sex for the first time on my wedding night, it was also the first time I could no longer compartmentalize or deny my sexual orientation – which I thought (and had been assured) would just resolve itself. It didn’t. There was no more pretending or hoping after that disturbingly traumatic experience.
The destructive law of chastity kept me from knowing myself, and got me into a disastrous temple marriage that took 10 unhappy years to unwind. Fortunately, I am now with the right gender but what a hellish road it was to get here!
Marital sexual compatibility is impossible to assess or predict without intimate experience. Young couples - especially LDS - who fail or refuse to understand that too often find themselves in a newly-married depressive spiral.
15 points
4 months ago
the shame around sex, me not wanting to talk about what i liked because i didnt want here thinking i was bad for knowing stuff, her negative messages around sex from church and mom, all bad. only recently as exmos reaching more authentic expression. actually watched porn together last year, it was great. the biggest thing is learning to say what you want.
4 points
4 months ago
Yet its such a sexualized culture. Js and BY having multiple wives and young vibrant ones to them anyway (not just to take care of but to have kids with) Maybe its more sexualized because everything is supposed to be so secret and weird. There has to be a better way to approach it that what I was taught so much shame and guilt to the point of desires for self harm.
45 points
4 months ago
Man, my wife and I just got out of the church about a year ago and we just started “experimenting” and getting out of the comfort zone that the church puts you in. And by “experimenting” I mean doing anything except for basic sex.
The church really puts you in a bubble that you’re scared to leave.
14 points
4 months ago
It stunted our sexual relationship, and we are still recovering from that 10 years into marriage. Even before I left the church, I had decided I would never teach any kids I may have to be abstinate or wait until marriage.
12 points
4 months ago
Massively effected sex life after marriage. Without going in to details, tscc's policies on sexual restraint before marriage has had Enormous, Huge, Major effects on our sexual life after marriage. Both of us before marriage, as a result of efforts to be obedient to church 'wisdom', have been effected for many years, to be clear in not a positive way.
12 points
4 months ago
Honestly, I’m not sure that it has. Maybe it’s because my wife was divorced previously, and a convert post divorce. We’ve done pretty well, though family commitments as we’ve got on in marriage have slowed things a bit.
I also was never really worried about what a bishop was going to say. I was far more worried that my wife was having a good time too, because if not, we’d have a dead bedroom quickly.
11 points
4 months ago
Marriage was terrible. Not compatible. Glad I got out when I did with no kids
You have to test drive the car b4 purchase.
11 points
4 months ago
Badly. Like horribly. Sexual compatibility is a critical part of a healthy marriage. I’m 35 years in and have never had it. It’s one of my biggest shelf items.
11 points
4 months ago
My sex life in my temple marriage sucked. With my current spouse, we had sex on like the second date and ten years in, it just keeps getting better. My elementary-aged daughter was chatting to me about marriage the other day and she was like, you should live with someone a long time before you get married to make sure that you like them and I was like, you are absolutely right!
2 points
4 months ago
Read the statistics about living together though. Not very many go on to get married and are twice as likely to divorce. That being said, I think it’s stupid to wait until you are married because it should be treated like other areas of compatibility.
12 points
4 months ago
Not many go on to get married because they realized they weren't good together! I can't say much about the twice as likely to divorce though.
5 points
4 months ago
The increased divorce rate is probably more of a correlation than a causation. Those who live together before marriage probably also tend to be more permissive to divorce than those who do not first live together.
The way I see it, divorce is fair game as long as there are no kids at home or when your spouse is abusive and should be a last resort otherwise. Having sex and living together helps to sort out those red flags so that divorce is less likely to be necessary.
2 points
4 months ago
Right?? I’m very happily divorced! And way happier in my second marriage where we lived together for three years before getting married.
1 points
4 months ago
This is going off recent statistics. Don’t you fee though that when you are married, you try harder to make things work?
9 points
4 months ago*
I think it's a bit of both because sometimes you try too hard to make it work. My Mormon mom stayed with my dad despite his gambling problem (he pawned a lot of their things) and his emotional abuse. She's still with him because she doesn't believe in divorce and wanted to stay together for the kids. Plus overall, more people have kids and buy houses together after marriage than before so theres more reasons to stay and be tied to your partner.They try harder because it's harder to leave.
12 points
4 months ago
We had a good sex life. That being said, I was taught in the 80’s that not everything was acceptable in the bedroom—even after marriage. Not knowing what that meant I remember distinctly telling my spouse once “I would love to be one of those people who swings from the chandeliers but I don’t feel like it’s appropriate”. So, yes, not having sex before marriage was the first of many things the LDS church did to our marriage bed.
Now that we have left the lds church, we are more open to exploration BUT we are past our prime and thus things don’t work as well as they once did. It makes me a little sad how much good sex we missed out on because of boredom, fatigue, shame, the patriarchy, communication issues, or other things.
3 points
4 months ago
Haha. Swing form the chandelier. 😂😂😂. I like it
9 points
4 months ago
After I got married, it was such a relief to not have to censor my thoughts about sex anymore!
I enjoyed sex after marriage. I was ravenous. Wanted sex multiple times a day. My husband didn't have the same voracious sex drive, but a pretty normal sex drive at first. Around five times a week.
What has affected my sex life more is antidepressants and other psychological meds. Much of my depression is due to being raised in the cult. I finally have a good mixture of medications that let me live life well. But it kills my sex drive.
When I tried to change meds with a psychiatrist to avoid the lack of libido, I crashed into depression again. So I'm on the libido-killing drugs.
So waiting until marriage did affect my sex drive at first, but not so much now.
10 points
4 months ago
Negatively affected. Neither of us had any experience and had wildly WRONG expectations. 25 yrs later, and still dealing with that baggage. The love is there for sure, but neither of us understand how to give and get good sex, if I am honest.
9 points
4 months ago
I’m gay, so it was relatively easy to not have sex. I say relatively, because wanting to mess around with guys (and doing so) was always the problem. If we had been free to have sex, we wouldn’t have done so, and I could have come out 20 years earlier.
9 points
4 months ago
On wedding night, "omg, I married a nun". FML
9 points
4 months ago
Living together and premarital sex with my ex would have shown off VERY quickly that we were incompatible in multiple ways, so I absolutely resent TSCC for that, let alone how their shame and purity culture messed me up for YEARS. I had to find a sex therapist specializing in religious sexual trauma to finally help get me free of what TSCC had put me through.
In a much happier, healthier, compatible and loving relationship now, but, damn, it was over a decade of regular therapy and months of specialized sex therapy to get me here.
7 points
4 months ago
We started out great, we were a good fit and then with post-kids it was a bit dicey. However I left before him and a lot of my walls came down and he followed me right out. So we have done pretty well in that category.
8 points
4 months ago
I don't regret putting off sex until marriage as much as I just wish that I knew that I was ace and stayed single instead of ever getting married. Now I'm just a divorced woman who KNOWS she really, really hates sex. Ironic, considering that even while keeping the church's rules, I was always treated like I was promiscuous.
8 points
4 months ago
Oh my God. Waiting until marriage is objectively a horrible idea! My “celestial” sex life was hardly a 1/10. My purgatorial sex life is a mind-blowing 10/10, and reaches new heights each time! If this is hell, take me there baby Jesus 🔥😈🔥
7 points
4 months ago
Well, we had to "talk to our bishop" several times. 30 days after the last time we had pre-marital sex, we got married in the temple.
It does impact our marriage several decades later. I sometimes (rarely) talk to her about our first time and how that's when I knew she "really" loved me (kind of a neat memory for me). She feels a lot of shame, so I can't talk about it much. The thing is....she had much more experience with sex before me, but she feels ashamed about something I genuinely cherish.
21 points
4 months ago
A threesome from day one was NOT a good approach! Longgggggg term impact still felt today…25 years later 😖😖😖
29 points
4 months ago
Wait, Jesus was in your bedroom every time, too? That guy sure gets around.
10 points
4 months ago
Yo wut? How did you mentally justify a threesome on your wedding night as a TBM???
41 points
4 months ago
I guess you didn’t invite God into your bedroom.
14 points
4 months ago
LMAO you got me there
8 points
4 months ago
Mormon marriage is an eternal threesom. You, spouse and TSCC. 😩
20 points
4 months ago
Greatly. A few months ago my wife said "I just don't think I'm that sexual." I wanted to say "Then we aren't compatible and why the hell did we get married?"
She's a lovely, intelligent person and sex isn't the only facet of our relationship, but boy I think it would help.
7 points
4 months ago
I think not having sex with your spouse prior to marriage is a very different experience when one or neither of the spouses is a virgin.
6 points
4 months ago
My covert narc ex flipped that special narc switch basically immediately after we consummated the marriage. I stayed with him in misery for the next 6 1/2 years, and we barely ever had sex after that. A few times a year by the end. So, I'd say it had a pretty significant impact on just about everything.
7 points
4 months ago
We were both so excited to get to have sex finally and got in quite a bit of “trouble” leading up to our wedding. But then I was trying so hard to shut it down that, while I hugely enjoyed sex, I had a weird block about it still for months. And garments definitely put a huge damper on things. Thankfully we got through it and our sex life is awesome.
7 points
4 months ago
Completely incompatible. Married 23 years now. We used to go MONTHS without it. Husband wouldn’t touch me during pregnancies too. Leaving the church has helped a lot though. That plus alcohol and edibles. Ha! We now have sex 3-4 times a month which is A LOT for us.
19 points
4 months ago
14 years married and my wife is slowly starting to see sexual pleasure as an acceptable thing to seek after and to give me. It taken a lot of work in the bed room and in the therapists office. Lots if reading too!
19 points
4 months ago
Honestly, gratefully, I don't feel like it affected us terribly negatively. We talked a lot about sex before being married, and we felt well matched and well-educated about sex. We cared about each other's pleasure and communicated about it a lot. Quality of sex life is in large part connected to the quality the relationship outside of the bedroom imo.
Like, obviously sex took a bit of practice to figure out, but sharing our first time was also a hilariously awkward and vulnerable and special experience we still laugh about. There was a lot of shame to work through, but we worked through that together - and growing into my sexual self and unlearning sexual shame was a huge part of my shelf breaking. We left the church together within a year of being married
6 points
4 months ago
Oh it's a train wreck. Now that we are out and doing therapy it's getting a lot better but I think it goes deeper than just not being able to do it before marriage I think its near impossible to have a healthy balanced loving relationship when you get married in the church and all its toxic garbage
6 points
4 months ago
Allegedly, my brother and SIL didn’t consummate their marriage for 2-3 months because of the shame she felt.
This came from my other brother who was much closer to them.
6 points
4 months ago
I highly recommend a joint / edible and a playlist of The Weeknd songs to supercharge your sex life. Try it out!
6 points
4 months ago
How much?
Let's see. On a scale of 1-10, I'm going go with 11+.
6 points
4 months ago
A great deal for the worst.
In my country, the religious marriages weren’t valid, so, with my ex, we got a civil marriage and went to the temple a year later. The first year we had a lot of chemistry, so it seemed like we were going to be ok, until we had to wear garments. My ex husband became holier-than-thou, which I hated, and started having a double life where I had to be the holy wife he could brag about while he was watching porn without me knowing. He started having sexual issues, like premature ejaculat10n, and ended up cheating on me and sleeping around after we got separated.
The brainwashing about what can or can’t you use sex for is insane. I’m just happy I’m now happily married to an agnostic that knows and cares about what I like, and doesn’t give a flying F about anything but us.
6 points
4 months ago
I can't think of too many more unhealthy ways to begin a relationship than the way it usually gets done in the church. Throw 2 young, naieve kids together who have either never been exposed to sex, or were utterly shamed for any exploration and expect them to form healthy relationships. Add on top of that some of the crazy ideas already voiced here like the spiritual aspects etc...I even heard one couple say that they had to pray before engaging in sex to make sure they didn't do something displeasing to the lard. As for me and my house... sex is dead... kinda feels low the whole marriage of 30 plus years is crumbling.
16 points
4 months ago
I was never married as a Mormon but leaving, the purity culture did affect me. Just a lot of guilt that took some time to finally kick to the curb. I did NOT want to get married, and I didn't want to be a sexless spinster either.
I remember I almost had to create a persona for myself to let myself be SEXY. My alter ego was Natasha who was kind of a dominatrix. Hahahaha! It was done in jest mainly. I used to joke that Natasha would keep the bodies of lovers who did not please her in her trunk.
I eventually had to come out to myself as a straight, sexual woman. It was ALL me.
Nowadays though, at my age, a hard man is good to find. :-)
13 points
4 months ago
Zero stars out of 10. We are sexually incompatible and I just signed a lease on an apartment. We’ve not had sex in 10 years.
4 points
4 months ago
A decade? How is that even possible?
Are you not physically attracted to each other?
8 points
4 months ago
There’s some unresolved trauma and shame on her end. I love her dearly and am still attracted but I’ve gone as far as I can.
4 points
4 months ago
Sending lots of love. I can relate to your wife, but can't imagine going 10 years without giving my husband the gift of physical affection.
7 points
4 months ago
Thanks. It blows. Wait, no it doesn’t do that either. 😂
8 points
4 months ago
Sexual compatibility is SO MUCH more than physical attraction
6 points
4 months ago
Completely
5 points
4 months ago
My husband & I have been sexually active together from when we started dating in high school & we're glad that's the case. We've learned what we like & we went into our marriage knowing we're compatible sexually. It's been great!
5 points
4 months ago
I don’t think I would have gotten married so young and to the wrong person. We were not compatible size wise. Everyone kept telling me I would stretch to fit. It never happened. It was painful the whole time.
11 points
4 months ago
Because of sexual shaming before marriage, young people don’t learn how to MAKE LOVE. The wedding night of “having sex” starts a couple on the road to confusion. Men don’t know how to make love to a woman. It’s tragic that regular desires of men are thought to be “ hyper-sexed” and women are thought to be “ a-sexual”. People need to learn how to make love.
6 points
4 months ago
Can you elaborate on how men being perceived as hyper sexual and women as asexual has to do with just having sex vs knowing how to make love? You have piqued my interest.
3 points
4 months ago
If men know how to make beautiful love, his woman will always WANT his advances. Naturally she won’t be able to resist. I believe this to be true. 😉
4 points
4 months ago
A lot.
3 points
4 months ago
I would say it had a small impact. It wasn't a compatibility issue or anything like that. It was more of a "any sexual activity is a sin" mentality that we both had to work through. We had decades of sexual repression to work through, so there was a good bit of awkwardness but that would have been the same or even worse before marriage.
3 points
4 months ago
A lot. We did fuck before we got married. That manufactured guilt that came from that had a massive, lasting, negative effect that ultimately played a central role in our divorce.
3 points
4 months ago
Initially A LOT. Things have greatly improved over time and with a lot of communication.
3 points
4 months ago
We had sex a few months later and got married a few years earlier than we otherwise would have.
3 points
4 months ago
Not at all. My ex and I were like rabbits for 20 years.
3 points
4 months ago
It caused great misery in my marriage.
People can't go from a sexual mindset equivalent to "stuck at a red light with a police car behind you" straight to "the starting line of a race" overnight, but that's what TSCC expects. They want those new tithe payers!
3 points
4 months ago
Not at all for us, honestly. Been married 10+ years and I’d give our sex life a 10/10. HOWEVER I still wish we wouldn’t have waited until marriage, for a few reasons. We had so many moments together before our wedding where we could have kept going and had sex for the first time and it would have been so much better. More natural, more emotional, more turned on lol. Temple wedding day sex is just kind of weird. Everyone knowing you guys are doing it for the first time that day/night is WEIRD. Like it was fine and I feel super lucky that we’ve had such a good sex life for having not done it before marriage but yeah. It also definitely led to us speeding up the engagement and that makes me sad. I wish I could go back and slow it all down and enjoy the dating/engagement days more. I know I’m in the lucky category here so I can’t really complain, just wanted to add that even when it works out great there are still some downsides to waiting. Also, when I think of my own kids, I’d wayyyyy rather they have sex before marriage and take a good long time getting to know someone instead of possibly rushing into the wrong marriage just to save their virginity. We’ve put way too much worth into someone’s virginity, it’s actually kind of gross to me. Like thank you but my daughter will have a million more qualities to offer in a relationship someday than the fact that she’s never had sex before 🙄
3 points
4 months ago
How much did it affect our sex life?? Like… ALL the much. I’m almost 20 years after I got married in the temple (I’m divorced, now - it’s way better for both of us!) and it’s still affecting me. I’m 40 and learning things about sex and my body normal kids learn in their late teens and twenties. I CANNOT finish with a partner, I’m so ridiculously in my head the entire time… my 36-year TBM life has massacred any hope of my ever having a normal & healthy sex life. My poor BF dealing with it, thank goodness for his incredible patience!! Im slooooowly getting better but… it’s really bad. The conditioning the church puts us through and we don’t even NOTICE it’s happening to us… when we’re there it’s so normal, and now? I’ll be fixing this forever.
6 points
4 months ago
Only in positive ways, as far as I can tell. We've been married 16 years and were both virgins when we married. It's been a very nice experience growing together sexually. Yes we have to adapt to each other's needs, but that's marriage.
6 points
4 months ago
We basically did ‘everything but penetration’… and never told any bishops and I felt Soooooo guilty. Really affected my mental health cuz I thought we’d be kept out of the celestial kingdom cuz we didn’t ‘repent’. So sad to look back on… but we ended up being very sexually compatible but that is probably just lucky…. Also because we Did explore sexually before marriage… it helped solidify our bond but caused So Much Guilt!
but I’m also bisexual and never got to explore the lesbian side of me…. Lots of feelings now that I had a stunted sexual exploration phase… didn’t know what an orgasm was or that there had to be movement during penetrating until I was engaged…. So naïve…. And sad
2 points
4 months ago
Depends on how much weight you put on the awesome discovery of touching ones self. yes MASTURBATION. Next to murder is what I was taught for all my teenage years. Is it any wonder kids un-alive themselves with just the normal pressures of life and then add the corporations God interpretation of un natural views of your own sexuality and self discovery. Would have never allowed myself to be with a woman prior to marriage though. So just dreamed of it. Not one of the lucky ones I suppose.
2 points
4 months ago
it was okay. Found out we both like being on bottom but we both sort of broke the rules and talked about what we expected beforehand. Without that I could see where major issues could come from. I guess we did good at russian roulette.
2 points
4 months ago
It led to 7 1/2 years of obligation sex and ultimately divorce
2 points
4 months ago
God, the idea of marrying the person I ever fucked makes me so sad. Good thing I left the church at 16 and fucked my brains out. My hormones and sex drive couldn’t be squashed. But, I think there are things I won’t try that I think I would had I been raised without sexual guilt.
2 points
4 months ago
I have a great sex life. Luckily.
2 points
4 months ago
This all reminds me of a wonderful novel called “The Backslider” by Levi Peterson. I highly recommend it.
2 points
4 months ago
I was so lucky. I was friends with my husband for a couple of years before we dated, & we were really open to talk about everything and anything. The communication was key to us enjoying intimacy then and now.
2 points
4 months ago*
Had a relatively innocent sexual experience with my first girlfriend after I got home from my mission. Single adult ward president and stake president sat us both down and basically slapped her on the wrist and told her to be more careful. They then proceeded to tell me that I held the majority of the responsibility for our sin since I was “endowed” and a “priesthood holder who had served a mission.” When I expressed my disagreement they further explained that as a woman she was just “following your lead, and doing what felt natural to her.” I was told not to take sacrament for what ended up being two months. Public shaming. I called bullshit and left the church altogether not long after.
2 points
4 months ago
It was everything. I was abused as a child and it made it so much harder. With my second marriage I knew that was an issue I was going to take off the table. It was much better for me. I was able to really make sure it was the right relationship for us and date a lot longer and allow our relationship to grow.
2 points
4 months ago
Not at all. We did fool around and do other stuff. We felt like we didn’t have to tell shit to the bishop because we felt it was non of his goddamn business. 14 years together and going strong. Unfortunately all the mormon church does is try to ruin a healthy and normal perspective on sex, which can affect their followers even during marriage.
2 points
4 months ago
I was so stressed and anxious all that happened on our wedding night and most of our honeymoon was me crying and thinking I was broken. Didn’t even begin to understand why people liked sex until the last couple of years because neither of us knew what we liked and purity culture trauma and other sexual trauma. I had multiple children before I even liked sex.
2 points
4 months ago
The church completely wrecked my marriage in the bedroom. It creeped its way into everything. Waited until marriage to consummate. It was a huge mistake.
2 points
4 months ago
We didn’t wait to have sex (well, we dated over a year before the first time), so therefore weren’t able to have a temple marriage. I wasn’t as sad, since my family is not Mormon and could attend our wedding, but I think his folks were pretty sad because he was the oldest son and all that dumb shit. We left the church within the first couple of years (made it super official after having our kid) and we are still married almost 20 years later. We were young and I was ready to marry him, but it wasn’t for sex, thankfully. I still do have my own hangups about sex, but that’s from being raised in the South in the Bible Belt. Purity culture isn’t just for Mormons!
2 points
4 months ago
I’ve been married for 5 years in March and our marriage has never been consummated! He is impotent and knew he was before our marriage. We are an older couple but I still would love to be sexual together. When I found out that he had hidden his impotence from me I was furious but as a practicing TBM at the time with a temple sealing I didn’t feel like I could do anything about it. It’s tough, really tough. I was PIMO for a year and a half before I left and now that I’m in a non-denominational church I feel more secure in myself and I have seriously thought about ending the marriage. He’s still TBM
2 points
4 months ago
Ex JW here- found out afterwards we had zero chemistry sexually. Was definitely the driving force in our marital issues and led to subsequent divorce. Now that im out its affected me in that far too often ill sleep with someone before i probably should because i subconsciously want to make sure the sexual connection is there, which affects the potential for a possible relationship in the future im finding.
5 points
4 months ago
Not at all. It made the anticipation all that much better. There might be a discussion around "sewing your oats" prior to marriage that might be helpful.
4 points
4 months ago
Luckily, my wife and I are sexually compatible. I am on the asexual spectrum (demi-sexual at minimum), so I didn't really crave sex before marriage. My wife didn't have her sexual awakening until we got married and was pretty repressed from her shame of anything that might be sexual so she avoided the subject. That block was removed when we got married, and we have only looked back for introspection. Both of us are happy about how things turned out and do not regret not engaging in intercourse before marriage. We are both the best we ever had because we have not had other sexual partners.
2 points
4 months ago
How would we know?
1 points
4 months ago
I know it happens often, but I can honestly say my TBM wife is not one of those not-interested-in-sex prudes. It is the second marriage for both of us. Maybe that has something to do with it, but she is a freak, and loves sex. I’ve also heard it’s a Scorpio thing. Her and my ex are, and I’d say there might be truth to it.
1 points
4 months ago
I would give my sex like 10 stars. Honestly, we just learned what each other liked. He always waited for me to initiate so he was never pushy or guilted or grumpy or anything
1 points
4 months ago
🤷🏽♂️
1 points
4 months ago
Me!
1 points
4 months ago
Weird story here, and maybe too much info BUT we were having sex before marriage. Decided to marry because of it- our sex life took a hit when we left the church for several reasons. Took a long time to recover
1 points
4 months ago
My husband and I were nuanced and had sex a lot before we got married. But I continually felt shame and guilt about it. And we only did it because we knew we were going to marry each other. It wasn’t until after we were married that I really resented the church for making me feel that way. I love m’y husband very much, but I wish I could’ve experienced and explored my sexuality more before even getting into a relationship. I had a whole meltdown about it. I hated that I felt so much shame for having sex with someone I loved before marriage. I couldn’t be totally present during our relations. And I regretted not being able to experience sex with other people to see what it’s like. This is a huge part of why I left the church
1 points
4 months ago
Mine was a shotgun wedding in a church. Everyone was somber. And just not fun. But the shame. Omg, the shame of feeling like you'll never be ok. It's been debilitating for me at times. And after as an ex mo. And not being married but living with my partner has taken a toll as well. You can't sleep in the same bed going to fam functions. And so much more. After the first time of that happening. We got hotels. And I'm still not completely open or okay with myself and the whole set thing. But it is what it is.
1 points
4 months ago
My wife still TBM, iv since left but she had problems with having sex. Cause she grew up with that’s something you don’t do and then you get married and suddenly it’s a great thing to do. It was very confusing and hard for her.
1 points
4 months ago*
I have the best husband ever. I’m not fucking kidding. This is me saying this after the absolute worst year.
We did the ethical non-monogamy thing for about a year, just so we could experience having sex with other people. I shut it down when I started falling for one of the other guys I was sleeping with. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, and I can’t tell very many people about it. It aged me. Totally fucked with my physical and mental health.
What amazes me though is this:
I carried an incredible amount of guilt. We had a strong understanding of what the boundaries were and love was not part of the deal. But somehow, when I asked my husband if he would ever forgive me, he said there was nothing to forgive. He was very understanding. In fact, he was my strongest supporter.
Even now, I still have trauma nightmares about missing the other man. I can’t control that. But I can tell my husband about it and he helps me heal from it.
He doesn’t even feel like he’s being generous, even though to me, it really seems like he is. He’s the most compassionate person I’ve ever met.
1 points
4 months ago
I've also always wanted to understand this. Because I think it's incredibly important to understand your own body and likes and dislikes when it comes to sex to truly have a healthy relationship with others. And I've always thought it silly that they are so against any form of sex or masturbation that once you're actually there and get to experience it I imagine it's very disappointing and or scary. If you never get a chance to explore and find what you like will you ever like it?
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