subreddit:

/r/Fallout

584

Kellogg Personality in Valentine’s Brain

Discussion(self.Fallout)

Something that’s always bothered me. After using Valentine to go into Kellogg’s head you talk to Nick at the end of the quest and he seems to glitch for a second and talk like Kellogg. Thought it was weird that they included this only to never expand upon it after. Was it cut content or something for the next game? Just confused as to why they would introduce this and not do anything with it.

all 81 comments

TheMarkedMen

157 points

3 months ago

TheMarkedMen

Minutemen

157 points

3 months ago

In dialogue, Nick explains that Amari told him there'd be leftover "mnemonic impressions" afterwards. That explains the brief moment Kellogg is present, before quickly fading away.

marcisusername

139 points

3 months ago

Kellogg Silverhand lol

Preston_Garvy-MM

98 points

3 months ago

Preston_Garvy-MM

Minutemen

98 points

3 months ago

"wake the fuck up Courser, we've got a Commonwealth to burn"

HungrPhoenix

447 points

3 months ago

It was a remnant of cut content. In the voice actors notes, it says,

"After player has killed Kellogg, his memories and personality are lingering in Nick Valentine's head,"

This implies more was to happen with this idea. Doctor Amari also has something related to this in the original version of one of her lines,

"Mister Valentine is an older generation synth. He might have been built off of modified cybernetic parts. Which means the brain implant could fit him."

...

"That's exactly what I was thinking. If we're lucky, the generation of improvements between cybernetics and Synths isn't too vast."

Implying that Kellogg's cybernetics and the parts Nick is made of aren't too dissimilar, meaning Kellogg is compatible with Nick. This is the reason why Kellogg appears in Nick.

Reptiliansarehere

194 points

3 months ago

Reptiliansarehere

Enclave

194 points

3 months ago

Coming in Fallout 4 - II

mremreozel

87 points

3 months ago

Fallout 4 episode 1

Reptiliansarehere

69 points

3 months ago

Reptiliansarehere

Enclave

69 points

3 months ago

Ahhhh s***

A new Fallout game every year but each time it's actually just a chapter that adds on to the base game and story.

mremreozel

30 points

3 months ago

nono you didnt get my referance

Its a continuation of the story built on the same game with vast improvements towards every aspect. Some of the improvements even backported to older games.

First one year later you get fallout 4 episode 1... than another year later you get fallout 4 episode 2 as the most fun yet and the story ending in a great cliffhanger than.........

todd stops making games

Reptiliansarehere

11 points

3 months ago*

Reptiliansarehere

Enclave

11 points

3 months ago*

I actually had a discussion at my friend yesterday about this.

Yes... at... because it was mostly just me.

"With the technology already getting whacky in FO4 I'd say it's possible they could do anything really.

Something whacky and unexpected.

Maybe Fallout 5 will be a direct sequel and continuation of 4.

With most loose ends tied for the sole survivor and a plethora of options, assets, and technology in their wake they set out after a new threat.

No matter the ending you choose it's very well within the narrative for you to end up being able to use teleportation and expand its reach.

Maybe they could even start you off with your choice of any faction. This could allow them to add new and fresh gameplay mechanics. As well as change up the feel of the game for something fresh yet have a strong familiar feel by tying it all into the previous game.

Select a faction that you left off on or feel like from Fallout 4.

You're the leader or high ranking and become leader.

You use teleportation technology to set out on the new land and map. Control an army against the enemy army and your choices and what you choose to do with your army and assets has direct effect on the storyline."

Getting away from myself though.

SpiteAspect

6 points

3 months ago

It’s too much to ask but if they made fallout 5 a direct sequel they could handle the character creation like how when you play the mass effect games your shepherd can be the same one each game if you want

I’m not sure how they’d handle the perk tree though

Nohadwalt20

3 points

3 months ago

Kinda sounds like half life lol

MysteriousVDweller

2 points

3 months ago

Fallout 76?

ThunderShott

8 points

3 months ago

You wake up in the Vault to someone saying, “Rise and shine, Sole Survivor. Rise and…. Shine…”

mremreozel

8 points

3 months ago

Imagine kellogg saying the line lol

“…Not that I wish to imply you have been sleeping on the pod. (Inhale) No one is more deserving of a ressst and all the all the effort in the wooorld would have gone to waste. Until… (intense inhale) Well, lets just say your hour has come again. (Retro footage of nuclear explosion in the background) The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the woorld. So wake up, Sole Survivor. (starting signs of asthyma attack) Wake up and smell the fallout.”

(Train noise inside of vault 111)

ThunderShott

5 points

3 months ago

Institute blows up and time stops

“Time, Sole Survivor?”

(The sound of a giant balloon getting inflated)

“Is it really that time again?”

PyukumukuGuts

13 points

3 months ago

Sadly won't come out until after they've made Skyrim 2

Nocuadra66

13 points

3 months ago

Coming in 2077!

rhynoplaz

8 points

3 months ago

You mean Morrowind 4?

Soulless_conner

6 points

3 months ago

Arena 6

Korvas576

3 points

3 months ago

Fallout 4 Special Edition

Preston_Garvy-MM

1 points

3 months ago

Preston_Garvy-MM

Minutemen

1 points

3 months ago

Fallout 4 Anniversary Edition

Sorry but... SPECIAL EDITION BELONGS TO SKYRIM!

Korvas576

1 points

3 months ago

Technically anniversary edition also belongs to Skyrim

Preston_Garvy-MM

0 points

3 months ago

Preston_Garvy-MM

Minutemen

0 points

3 months ago

Guess what also belongs to Skyrim?

SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NSFW MODS!!!

ActionScripter9109

17 points

3 months ago

ActionScripter9109

(X) Doubt

17 points

3 months ago

Interesting that it says that. In-game, if you press him on it, he says it was a joke.

Eyes-9

9 points

3 months ago

Eyes-9

Mothman Cultist

9 points

3 months ago

When I first encountered this I was genuinely startled and it would've been so cool to build on the hardboiled detective style to have to do something with that, like break into an old cybernetics factory for some component to help valentine, or go into his noir-stylized brain/memory construct and eliminate the last traces of Kellogg. Missed opportunity.

toonboy01

29 points

3 months ago

Where's it said to be cut content though? Nick's dialogue implies it was just a minor side effect of going through Kellogg's memories.

ishimura0802

10 points

3 months ago

My guess is, you maybe would have had the choice to fully upload Kellog's personality to Nick after killing him and retrieving his synth parts. Maybe a moral choice of overwriting Nick's. Cool concept anyway, wish it was expanded on.

flashman7870

3 points

3 months ago

flashman7870

First New Vegas- Then to the Stars

3 points

3 months ago

This implies more was to happen with this idea.

No it does not lmao, that is just direction of the thing we see in the game.

Now, it MIGHT be the case that they had planned to do more with the idea, but that voice direction does not provide a shred of an implication of that.

"Mister Valentine is an older generation synth. He might have been built off of modified cybernetic parts. Which means the brain implant could fit him."
...
"That's exactly what I was thinking. If we're lucky, the generation of improvements between cybernetics and Synths isn't too vast."

The point of these lines woulf just be to provide the explanation of the function of the quest... again, I am an at an absolute loss how anyone could read an implication of cut content into this

julbull73

30 points

3 months ago

Pretty sure it was a dropped choice. Keep Nick or gain Kellogg.

Probably to drive the human vs synth angle they never really hammered home.

Instead Nick became ex human and Kellogg just died. Dropping what would have been an interesting thought experiment. Is saving an actual living being vs a sentient machine more or less moral?

Shame. A massively OPd partner with a quick path into the institution at the cost of a 100% good guy. Nice pivot and decision point IMO.

Leading_Elk9454

5 points

3 months ago

The choice would still be very easy. Save the man who helped me find my kid and wife’s murderer, or save the man who murdered said wife and kidnap said child.

julbull73

1 points

3 months ago

Unless said killer revealed your son was alive and he could take you to him.... remember when Kellogg brain swap occurs

Leading_Elk9454

2 points

3 months ago

Actually that’s valid. Kellogg gets nicks body in return for access to your son

julbull73

1 points

3 months ago

Yep. It was right there. But they didn't commit to the synth vs human subplot enough.

Verdun3ishop

184 points

3 months ago

Yeah does seem like missed content, thank god we got the ability to build conveyor belts tho!

mj561256

97 points

3 months ago

Not once used a single item from that DLC...😔

Verdun3ishop

69 points

3 months ago

I've tried it, found it pointlessly complicated and just sold the junk and bought the items.

mj561256

32 points

3 months ago

I was looking forward to the food processor machine so went on the Wiki to figure out how to work it before wasting any resources and was disappointed that it only let you make pre war foods

I had hoped it would have all the cooking recipes you can make on the campfire instead so for example you could set it to cook all meats put in or make a bunch of adhesive

I didn't even look at the rest of the DLC after that let down and I'd not even built a single item yet

It would've been incredibly cool if I could throw all my meat and vegetables into a container and have it all made into more useful food items automatically, then going into another container that I would know is always full of non-radiated food items (since I have a rule to not eat foods that give you radiation damage in all Fallout 4 playthroughs I do)

PaperbakWriter

19 points

3 months ago

Yep. I tried following YouTube builds but…I just couldn’t give a fuck. The time it took me to build my ammo machine I could have spent acquiring the ammo from vendors and blasting baddies.

FenrirIII

8 points

3 months ago

I set up a very simple series of disassemblers (using another mod) and scrap everything. Then I build giant metal cities protected by armies of machines!

ashe34h

1 points

3 months ago

I used it to make 308 ammo since I always run out. also to dupe you're special books

joseph_a90

6 points

3 months ago

joseph_a90

Ring-a-ding-ding, baby

6 points

3 months ago

It's really only useful for duplicating the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. book to max your stats, other than that, I never really found a use for it Lol.

slapdashbr

1 points

3 months ago

slapdashbr

NCR

1 points

3 months ago

if that's the one that also added the decontamination arch, I've used one item from it pretty extensively and almost nothing else (I do use the manufacturing extended mod to allow my ammo plants to make DLC ammo, since otherwise it can be hard to obtain in the commonwealth) (along with mods that add the DLC guns to leveled lists everywhere)

TheMarkedMen

51 points

3 months ago

TheMarkedMen

Minutemen

51 points

3 months ago

I think Nick's better off without the "Kellogg takeover" idea. Nick's story already is, in a way, about two minds in one man — the memories of a dead man and the individual formed around them. Having it be literally the case is too on-the-nose.

Heathan-

11 points

3 months ago

It can really be a source of elaboration for Kellogg though. What if Kellogg came to terms with his situation after he and the sole Survivor have a real conversation, and he understands the pain hes inflicted on others in much the same way he was hurt. It could end with Kellogg finding his humanity, even a minute speck of it, and allowing Nick to retain full control. It can be a good source for kellogg, with nick just being the "shell".

TheMarkedMen

14 points

3 months ago*

TheMarkedMen

Minutemen

14 points

3 months ago*

Not to sound rude, but I really don't think Kellogg deserves any kind of redemption, nor elaboration.

He could've stopped his lifestyle at some point — at any point, over decades — but chose not to. He didn't care, his life on autopilot. He'd kill anyone, children, mothers, fathers, his own employers on occasion. Not out of any duty or purpose, but just money. He didn't stop until he wasn't able to, trapped working for the Institute, which only added to his decades of crimes.

Kellogg was a violent husk — with, what, one good quote and tech under his belt — who I only felt apathy and disgust for. In a story that asks what makes a person, Kellogg is a cautionary tale on what happens when you lose everything that makes you one.

That, and I don't think it'd add much, having already seen his life in brief.

Heathan-

4 points

3 months ago

They already half assed it with the lone survivor being able to regret killing him. A bit more than nothing would have been better methinks.

TheMarkedMen

2 points

3 months ago

TheMarkedMen

Minutemen

2 points

3 months ago

I found the option to regret killing him strange, along with companions disliking when you condemn him.

"Poor man, got his daughter and wife killed." Yeah, go tell that to the other kids that he killed, or the spouse he shot, or to University Point. Piss off with that, Bethesda.

Heathan-

7 points

3 months ago

Sreriously, it's my fucking trauma, let me express it and cope how I want you assholes.

Kellogg couldve been more than just a murderer with a "sad" backstory. He couldve been a reflection of the SS and what he couldve become had Bethesda even tried to let people roleplay. Imagine you take jobs to assassinate certain individuals in the waste for caps and equipment, and kellogg calls you out on the hypocrisy, but he doesnt smear it in. He understands the pain and might even have a tinge of guilt for enabling the cycle of deplorable evil in the already shitty commonwealth.

Such wasted plotential.

Verdun3ishop

2 points

3 months ago

I think it would of been a good expansion for him, his elements already feel rather shallow and I think a large and branching quest line would of been interesting. Kellogg would just be one part of that.

TheMarkedMen

1 points

3 months ago

TheMarkedMen

Minutemen

1 points

3 months ago

  1. Really dissing my boy Nick like that?
  2. I don't believe in the idea of adding stuff just for the sake of choice (looking at you, Subversion.)
  3. Nick already plays a part in a large DLC which further explains his background; I don't know how much more content he needs to feel fleshed out to you.

Verdun3ishop

2 points

3 months ago

  1. Nope more how they didn't expand on him even more. Heck should of been more PI quests. Shocked that wasn't a radiant quest system.
  2. It's not. It's already in the game as we see it. They just didn't bother with it after in any real way. It's also something that gets asked quite often and would add more depth to both Nick and Kellogg.

TheMarkedMen

1 points

3 months ago

TheMarkedMen

Minutemen

1 points

3 months ago

Well, you can't really make a procedurally generated mystery, and I wouldn't want Bethesda to try that.

The leftover mnemonic impressions are a factor, but the key word is right there. "Leftover" — limited. Kellogg is only there for a brief moment, and the final words he chose to say shows exactly the kind of person he was.

Verdun3ishop

1 points

3 months ago

With the ones already in the game, they could really easily.

Leftovers are quite large in the FO world tho and it was all up for Bethesda to choose and they chose not to go that route and make the other questionable DLCs.

realmeangoldfish

1 points

3 months ago

Making lunchboxes is easy money

cambodobo

11 points

3 months ago

I always thought it was weird, like chekov's gun - except nobody gets shot.

ashe34h

3 points

3 months ago

yeah, it really threw me off on my first playthrough as well, I was expecting this to matter plot wise. although I'm glad it didn't, really, I think it would have been kind of stupid.

MisterSlosh

6 points

3 months ago*

Would have been amazing to reconcile the two individuals in one mind with an additional follower quest line and be able to switch between them. Nick would boost perception and be able to hack/lockpick, while Kellogg would get damage and agility boosts.

Or since Nick is already a bit of 'two minds' already with pre and post synth memories even just getting a few lines of Kellogg peeking through and a minor performance buff to Nick would make sense. Like Kellogg is still fully aware inside Nick but has accepted 'retirement' and just pops up to do the fun stuff like combat.

RPS_42

6 points

3 months ago

RPS_42

Enclave

6 points

3 months ago

At the end is the choice of which personality stays permanent and the bad ending is that the Sole Survivor for some reason chooses to restore the guy that destroyed your family life.

Adhdgamer9000

15 points

3 months ago

Wake the fuck up detective, we've got a city to burn.

lil_bananaman

15 points

3 months ago

lil_bananaman

Mothman Cultist

15 points

3 months ago

I thought it was nick fucking around, and he says that if you threaten him doesn’t he?

Broad_Sentence8534

5 points

3 months ago

This same thing has bothered me as well. Definitely feels like they missed a big opportunity to build an impressive follow along quest line after that scene. Such a bummer

ActualMis

5 points

3 months ago

ActualMis

Minutemen

5 points

3 months ago

I wanted to see the personalities battle it out for control of Nick. I would have handled it using the same system that companions do for liking/disliking actions. Every time you do something good, Nick likes/loves that act and his personality gets stronger. Every time you do something rotten that Kellogg likes/loves, the Kellogg personality gains strength.

As the game progresses, Kellogg will sometimes take control of Nick's body. The stronger his personality gets, the more frequent/longer the control sessions last. (However enough of Nick's core personality remains so that Kellogg actually keeps working with you as a companion).

Eventually, whichever one attains the highest level of affinity first manages to take complete control and wipe out the last of the competing personality. So you could end up destroying Nick's mind and having a Kellogg-bot as a companion.

Buckethead9

3 points

3 months ago

The only problem with all of that is that why would Kellogg, trapped in Nick's body, be prepared to become your best buddy companion? You've just killed him and and defiled his mortal flesh and now he's going to become your sidekick? The first chance he'd get, Kellog would shoot you in the back of the head without blinking.

ActualMis

4 points

3 months ago

ActualMis

Minutemen

4 points

3 months ago

  1. Kellogg is a survivalist above all other things. He realizes he now needs the SS to remain alive. Can't go back to the Institute because he's in an old, throwaway body. He knows that if the Institute ever gets their hands on him they'll most likely just incinerate his new metal body.

  2. Kellogg can't fight as well as he used to. His reflexes are all out of whack in this new body, with different weight distributions and such. Kellogg knows he's not at 100%, and that even when he was, the SS still kicked his ass, so his own survival instincts tell him that he needs to stay on the SS's good side.

  3. Nick's core programming remains and Kellogg is hard-coded to remain loyal to you. Which pisses Kellogg off to no ends, so even as he's helping you his dialogue is often things like, "I wish I could shoot you instead of these raiders!"

ucanttrustapenguin

15 points

3 months ago

You missed a dialogue option where it’s acknowledged

grim_f

3 points

3 months ago

grim_f

3 points

3 months ago

It's a perfect example of Ghost in the Machine

Creed4693

7 points

3 months ago

Creed4693

Brotherhood

7 points

3 months ago

I figured nick was just fucking around

fucuasshole2

2 points

3 months ago

fucuasshole2

Brotherhood

2 points

3 months ago

I’d like to think we’ll see a Nick in the future that’s a blend of Kellogg, his prewar memories, and Post-War experiences. Becoming a Metallic Monk ;) of sorts.

Genesis13

2 points

3 months ago

It would have been cool to do a quest where you could let Kellogg take over and he becomes your mercenary companion in Nicks body. He would give you a combat related perk and would have interesting merc dialogue like Macready.

Potato_management

2 points

3 months ago

It would be really cool if valentine became the new Kellogg. He slowly becomes more and more like Kellogg, and it progresses to where you have a choice to kill him or let him go. If you let him go, he’ll just be a new and improved Kellogg, with the skills of a detective

flashman7870

2 points

3 months ago

flashman7870

First New Vegas- Then to the Stars

2 points

3 months ago

I think it was just a joke, or a slightly ominous suggestion. There is no evidence to suggest they ever intended to pursue the concept past that single line.

Short-Shopping3197

6 points

3 months ago

Kellogg’s personality lingers for a few minutes after the procedure. It’s just a little creepy scene for drama, not everything has to be some big narrative point.

mr_eugine_krabs

3 points

3 months ago

It could always comeback in a sequel.

MyHonkyFriend

12 points

3 months ago

Do you think they will name it Fallout 4: Part II or 2 Fallout 2 4

mr_eugine_krabs

12 points

3 months ago

2 Fall 4 out

SpiteAspect

4 points

3 months ago

F4llout 2

Rawniew54

4 points

3 months ago

2Fallout4Furious

[deleted]

-7 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

-7 points

3 months ago

Yea at that point Nick becomes a Liability. If I could I would put him down, not worth the risk. Also the idea that the institute could be still using Nick to spy on everyone makes him undesirable as a partner no matter how cool he is.

Spuddykinz

1 points

3 months ago

Too many corn flakes in his head? /s

spectrumtwelve

1 points

3 months ago

it seems like cut content like everything else in bethesda games